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Thread: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by MZac View Post
    Personally I'd rather see Sean Avery's general behavior removed from the world before those that kick him in the ass once in a while. I'm probably in the minority here but seriously, Sean Avery? Zero sympathy for that ass kick, nice work Crow. Generally I do agree with you though.
    Didn't Crawford allegedly abuse Brent Sopel too?
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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4401296/c...h-hits-player/ (old but relevant for context)

    Physical abuse and verbal abuse both leave marks. Adult or not, a person in a supervisory role shouldn't resort to these negative enforcement methods to get results. That is the official line, its easy to see where it should be.

    What surprises me here is that people are acting shocked by these "revelations". Did people really think it was all high fives and ass slapping in the dressing rooms? I haven't played a minute of pro sports but had some level of expectation that the top level of competition would have some sort of activity like this.

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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    It really depends on how it went down, but generally speaking, a coach should never be physically attacking one of his players.
    Is it only me that looks at Mark Crawford, then listens to him speak, and has a hard time believing he wasn't the kid picked on / bullied in the play ground. I don't condone the behavior at all, but the thought of Crawford being intimidating (short of abusing his professional position over players) kinda makes me scratch my head. ... In a humorous sort of way.

    But agree with Blayze and others on this stance. Physicality on the Ice has NOTHING to do with abuse of position. Apples and Oranges.

    Players are expected to play the body, play the puck, play the mind. Coaches are expected to play the whiteboard with dry erase markers.

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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Snowflakes on one side, Knuckle-Draggers on the other. Sad that we need to rely on such insults to demean people who disagree with us...

    Rylant
    1) Not every joke is an insult. In fact, most aren't. He was clearly joking around with the Christmas reference.
    2) It's ok to be on either side, of course, but I hear "Knuckle-Draggers" are more attractive to women. I'm guessing it's because Snowflakes hide in the pantry when someone breaks into the house.

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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Does anyone have anything new or useful to add?


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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    In both scenarios there's abuse...But yes, I would agree a child getting abused in that scenario is abuse. But Avery also said he was choked...so that's more than a "kick in the ass". Avery said the kick left a mark. There's a lot of padding in hockey pants, and I've had slap shots not leave marks.

    I would love to conduct this experiment to see how hard someone would have to kick someone to leave a mark... especially if slapshots don't leave marks. I have to think there is a lot more force behind a slap shot than a kick. But that is off topic... but I do find it hard to believe anything Sean Avery says... he kinda lost all credit with all his stunts he pulled.

    Edit - And I am not saying that if he was abused that it shouldn't be looked into... abuse is never good. I just simply don't trust him.
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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    I would love to conduct this experiment to see how hard someone would have to kick someone to leave a mark... especially if slapshots don't leave marks. I have to think there is a lot more force behind a slap shot than a kick. But that is off topic... but I do find it hard to believe anything Sean Avery says... he kinda lost all credit with all his stunts he pulled.
    The kicking in the butt story is...questionable when he was likely sitting on the bench? I'm surprised someone hasn't found the game film, and found that instance where it would have happened. We know the game, we around when it would have happened in the game, I'm surprised we haven't seen it.

    I understand the angle with Avery. Especially if you watch his "Bike Lane" tapes, he does tend to make big issues out of small things, but when another player comes out about getting choked (Sopel) I'll give more weight to what he says.
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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Brent Sopel said of Marc Crawford over a year ago "He kicked me, he choked me, he grabbed the back of my jersey and pulled me back. He attacked guys personally".

    So while most will agree about the character of Sean Avery, it does not excuse this kind of behaviour and there is absolutely no place for any type of physical abuse by a coach in a position of authority. It has been this way for years and it should be removed altogether from the game. And to even bring up that it might hurt more to intentionally put yourself in the way of a slap shot, than it might be to get kicked by a coach is a false equivalency...

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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Sopel also said...

    “Crow and I had a love-hate relationship. We had more f**k you matches on the bench and in the dressing room than I’ve ever heard. He came after me all the time.”
    “For whatever reason, he kept putting me out there. I probably played close to 500 games of my career for him, so as much as I hated him, for whatever reason, there was something he liked about me.”

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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Brent Sopel said of Marc Crawford over a year ago "He kicked me, he choked me, he grabbed the back of my jersey and pulled me back. He attacked guys personally".

    So while most will agree about the character of Sean Avery, it does not excuse this kind of behaviour and there is absolutely no place for any type of physical abuse by a coach in a position of authority. It has been this way for years and it should be removed altogether from the game. And to even bring up that it might hurt more to intentionally put yourself in the way of a slap shot, than it might be to get kicked by a coach is a false equivalency...

    Rylant
    What makes it a false equivalency? Isn't false equivalency suggesting that two things are similar when in fact they are nowhere close? So I think you might have use the fancy terminology in the wrong context?

    - 2014OG suggested that slapshots do not leave marks when you get hit by them because of the padding in the pants.
    - I suggested an experiment based on the statement made by 2014 that slapshots do not leave marks, to see how hard someone would have to be kicked through hockey pants to leave a mark. (not on an actual human subject... but I am sure there is a scientific way to test it. My hypothesis was that a slapshot would be more likely to leave a mark than a kick.

    The discussion was solely about the a slapshot vs a kick... So I am not sure where this false equivalency comes into play... I don't think anyone said anything about anything being equivalent. Yes, being kicked by a coach has some other ramifications... but that was outside the scope.

    Again this does not take away from abuse being abuse and if a coach kicked a player... that is not right. I am just debating in my mind if a kick through hockey pads could leave a mark if a hockey puck from a slapshot does not. And just because a kick does not leave a mark, does not mean it is not still abuse.

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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by ericdaoust View Post
    Does anyone have anything new or useful to add?
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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    I just read a story on Facebook where Markus Naslund was asked about Crawford and Sopel. I can't link it, but I copied it.


    Similarly, we are hearing more and more stories about former Maple Leafs bench boss, Mike Babcock. While Babcock may not have physically abused his players (that we know of), his penchant for playing psychological mind games and verbally assaulting members of his roster is well documented.

    Former NHLers Chris Chelios and Johan Franzen have recently expressed their distaste for Babcock, bringing to light some of the heinous acts they had witnessed that they had witnessed under the 56-year old's tutelage in Detroit. Chelios sounded off on Babs, during an interview with Spittin' Chiclets, stating that his treatment of Johan Franzen was "probably the worst thing I’ve ever seen.” Quite the sentiment from Chelios, who probably witnessed a lot over his 26 seasons in the NHL.

    The latest target of abuse allegations is none other than Chicago Blackhawks Assistant Coach, Marc Crawford. The accusations Crawford is facing stem from his time as Head Coach of the Los Angeles Kings in 2006, when Crawford delivered a violent kick to, then NHLer, Sean Avery after Avery took a too many men penalty, which resulted in a goal against.

    Following this development, another of Crawford's former players, Brent Sopel, came forward to speak on his experience during Crawford's "reign of terror", claiming that the former Canucks coach routinely harassed players.

    Expressen is a nationwide evening newspaper in Sweden. They recently caught up with former Vancouver Canucks captain Markus Naslund to discuss his experience with Crawford during his tenure with the team and supporting some of Sopel's claims.

    "I understand Brent feels that way, Crawford was very tough on him in certain situations. I understand that he experienced it as a reign of terror and I have had that feeling myself. For example, when I played under Mike Keenan, who also had that kind of leadership style."

    Naslund continued, "He was very hot-tempered, with everything that entails. We are all different, some may analyze a situation before doing or saying something. Others go straight on emotions. I would say Crawford is the second one."

    The former Canucks captain did not completely throw Crawford under the bus, however. When asked if he, himself had experienced anything like what Sean Avery had experienced at the hands of Crawford, Naslund had this to say; "No. Not like that. But it's not uncommon for a coach to slap a player, but more for the purpose of "come on now". But I have never seen any physical violence."

    Naslund does believe, though, that there is a problem about the power the coach has in hockey.

    "Even if you make a lot of money as a hockey player, and very few actually succeed in doing that, you are still very dependent on the coach. If they don't like the way you play, you get no ice time. And if you don't get any ice time, your career will go down, and you may be sent down to the farm team," says Naslund, also noting that management has a large responsibility.

    "It is important to have a general manager who is in control of that, someone who does not just let the coaches loose. Because if they do that it can be dangerous. I'm not a person who believes in management by fear, I don't think it's the way to get the most out of a player."

    With the war-cries of many players wounded by coaches - current and former- reverberating across leagues at all levels, there is sure to be a changing of the guard sooner rather than later. The coaching styles that were once acceptable, are no longer that. Nobody deserves to be abused, no matter how large their salary is.

    Crawford is currently suspended indefinitely by the Blackhawks organization, pending the completion of an investigation based on the allegations.
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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    What makes it a false equivalency? Isn't false equivalency suggesting that two things are similar when in fact they are nowhere close? So I think you might have use the fancy terminology in the wrong context?

    - 2014OG suggested that slapshots do not leave marks when you get hit by them because of the padding in the pants.
    - I suggested an experiment based on the statement made by 2014 that slapshots do not leave marks, to see how hard someone would have to be kicked through hockey pants to leave a mark. (not on an actual human subject... but I am sure there is a scientific way to test it. My hypothesis was that a slapshot would be more likely to leave a mark than a kick.

    The discussion was solely about the a slapshot vs a kick... So I am not sure where this false equivalency comes into play... I don't think anyone said anything about anything being equivalent. Yes, being kicked by a coach has some other ramifications... but that was outside the scope.

    Again this does not take away from abuse being abuse and if a coach kicked a player... that is not right. I am just debating in my mind if a kick through hockey pads could leave a mark if a hockey puck from a slapshot does not. And just because a kick does not leave a mark, does not mean it is not still abuse.
    It's a false equivalency because one is a player intentionally putting himself in harms way as part of his job, as opposed to another human being deciding that the best way to deal with the situation is to physically abuse another human being. The level of pain being examined is completely irrelevant. A father can't beat his child and then defend his actions on the grounds that the child occasionally does worse damage to themselves...

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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Sopel also said...

    “Crow and I had a love-hate relationship. We had more f**k you matches on the bench and in the dressing room than I’ve ever heard. He came after me all the time.”
    “For whatever reason, he kept putting me out there. I probably played close to 500 games of my career for him, so as much as I hated him, for whatever reason, there was something he liked about me.”
    Well I guess it is completely acceptable then if Crawford choked him; afterall, there was something that Crawford liked about him which clearly makes it ok.

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    Default Re: Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Well I guess it is completely acceptable then if Crawford choked him; afterall, there was something that Crawford liked about him which clearly makes it ok.

    Rylant
    Well, that's just silly. Nobody wrote any such thing.

    Crawford likely grabbed the back of his jersey to get his attention and pulled on it too hard.
    The effect of that would be the front of his jersey against his neck feeling as though Crawford was choking him.

    Oh, hang on a second, someone just sent me an image of what Crawford actually did. Wow, it's almost as bad as what you imagined.

    U3ntitled.jpg

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