Babcock Fired

[Veritas0Aequitas]

I have a feeling the Leafs are going to go on a tear. Mid-season coaching changes on good, underperforming teams usually come with positive results.

[hockeyrobot]

Talk about kicking him when he's down.....lying on a bed of money.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/tor...024212428.html

This alleged tale, reported by Terry Koshan of the Toronto Sun, took place during the 2016-17 season and involved a young man that was a high-profile rookie on the team at the time.

“Babcock was alleged to have asked one of the Leafs’ rookies to list the players on the team from hardest-working to those who, in the eyes of the rookie, didn’t have a strong work ethic,” wrote Koshan. “The rookie did so, not wanting to upset his coach, but was taken aback when Babcock told the players who had been listed at the bottom.”

[ericdaoust]

The media narrative shift is quite amazing. A week ago this was not being talked about. Suddenly he's a horrible person and everyone hates him.

I fully believe the story, it's just funny how Babcock is out as coach and now there's a new story to shove down everyone's throats. Reporting for clicks!

[Axeman33]

I guess I dont understand why guys like Commodore and Fraser waited for Babcock to get fired in TO before coming out with their Babcock horror stories? If they really disliked him that much, why did it take him getting fired before saying something?

[Auston'sWilly]

The media narrative shift is quite amazing. A week ago this was not being talked about. Suddenly he's a horrible person and everyone hates him.

I fully believe the story, it's just funny how Babcock is out as coach and now there's a new story to shove down everyone's throats. Reporting for clicks!

I think the reason is more about Babcock no longer being in a position of power with his players, so they don't have to feel any consequence from confirming stories like the Marner list.
For what it's worth, Mark Fraser played briefly under Babcock and he confirmed Commodore's sentiment that Babcock is a dirtbag and players don't like him.

Now, having said that, we're still talking about only a few players who are vocal in their dislike of the man. So although I do believe there is some truth to Babcock's dirtbaginess, I also think it's being blown out of proportion. He's hard on guys. He's made some dumb decisions. I expected more from a coach who was paid as well as he is paid. But whatever, the grave dancing is boring already.

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I guess I dont understand why guys like Commodore and Fraser waited for Babcock to get fired in TO before coming out with their Babcock horror stories? If they really disliked him that much, why did it take him getting fired before saying something?

Commodore has been mouthing off about Babcock for a very, very long time. Long before he got fired.

[Axeman33]

I think the reason is more about Babcock no longer being in a position of power with his players, so they don't have to feel any consequence from confirming stories like the Marner list.
For what it's worth, Mark Fraser played briefly under Babcock and he confirmed Commodore's sentiment that Babcock is a dirtbag and players don't like him.

Now, having said that, we're still talking about only a few players who are vocal in their dislike of the man. So although I do believe there is some truth to Babcock's dirtbaginess, I also think it's being blown out of proportion. He's hard on guys. He's made some dumb decisions. I expected more from a coach who was paid as well as he is paid. But whatever, the grave dancing is boring already.

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Commodore has been mouthing off about Babcock for a very, very long time. Long before he got fired.

Really? This is the first I am reading/hearing about it.

[2014olympicgold]

The media narrative shift is quite amazing. A week ago this was not being talked about. Suddenly he's a horrible person and everyone hates him.

I fully believe the story, it's just funny how Babcock is out as coach and now there's a new story to shove down everyone's throats. Reporting for clicks!

This stuff definitely happens far too often in locker rooms though. It's just for this instance it's getting reported because the players were done with him. I'm sure this was a tactic Babcock used to embarrass rookies into "being a better teammate" in Babcock's eyes and kicking vets in the butt.

Was it a dick move? Yeah, prolly. Did it work? I think Marner and Kadri increased their PPG in the second half of the yr in 2016-17 and Bozak went from a negative player to a positive player. This is just what I read, so I haven't personally fact checked it.

Can only take being embarrassed for so long and have it effect your play in a positive way. It's like...spray a dog with water every time he does something wrong vs giving him a treat every time he's right. Babcock rarely gave a "treat" to his players for being good, he would say "ya good job" but never adjusted his lines or gave the player more ice-time. He was definitely more into negative reinforcement to get the players working, which young people don't take anymore.

[2014olympicgold]

I think the reason is more about Babcock no longer being in a position of power with his players, so they don't have to feel any consequence from confirming stories like the Marner list.
For what it's worth, Mark Fraser played briefly under Babcock and he confirmed Commodore's sentiment that Babcock is a dirtbag and players don't like him.

Now, having said that, we're still talking about only a few players who are vocal in their dislike of the man. So although I do believe there is some truth to Babcock's dirtbaginess, I also think it's being blown out of proportion. He's hard on guys. He's made some dumb decisions. I expected more from a coach who was paid as well as he is paid. But whatever, the grave dancing is boring already.

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Commodore has been mouthing off about Babcock for a very, very long time. Long before he got fired.

Could be wrong, but I think Fraser played 1 pre-season game under Babcock. I'll believe NHL players confirming stories on Babcock like, "ya Mike Commodore told me that 5yrs ago". But I'll take it with a grain of salt because he's getting the news from the one side, not seeing what happened himself.

[ericdaoust]

I am in favor of reporting the truth, so these stories have to come out. My point is it quickly became a collective pile-on. There's reasons for that.

[Axeman33]

This stuff definitely happens far too often in locker rooms though. It's just for this instance it's getting reported because the players were done with him. I'm sure this was a tactic Babcock used to embarrass rookies into "being a better teammate" in Babcock's eyes and kicking vets in the butt.

Was it a dick move? Yeah, prolly. Did it work? I think Marner and Kadri increased their PPG in the second half of the yr in 2016-17 and Bozak went from a negative player to a positive player. This is just what I read, so I haven't personally fact checked it.

Can only take being embarrassed for so long and have it effect your play in a positive way. It's like...spray a dog with water every time he does something wrong vs giving him a treat every time he's right. Babcock rarely gave a "treat" to his players for being good, he would say "ya good job" but never adjusted his lines or gave the player more ice-time. He was definitely more into negative reinforcement to get the players working, which young people don't take anymore.

LOL! Lord aint that the truth.

[2014olympicgold]

LOL! Lord aint that the truth.

Well, negative reinforcement gets you Mike Commodore's, bitter for YEARS. Apparently Scotty Bowman was an a$$hole too, but he won so players put up with it.

Positive reinforcement gets you like...uhhh...Barry Trotz I assume? He seems to be loved by all his players so I'll assume he's a much better personality manager than given credit for.

I'm still under the impression that if you've coached in the NHL prior to the lockout, you'll definitely have stories of doing what Babcock's done. New style of players = new style of coaches needed.

[hockeyrobot]

Babcock is headed toward Mike Keenan territory

[Auston'sWilly]

Fair points:


Greg Brady
@gregbradyTO


And on Babcock - he empowered a ton of players & helped them make tens of millions in Detroit.


If Shanahan despised playing for him, he NEVER comes to Toronto.
If Yzerman despised playing for him, he NEVER hires him for 2 Olympic teams.
Marleau & Tavares don’t come here, etc.

[hockeyrobot]

Not saying he's wrong....but Yzerman & Shanny only played a year under Babcock.

[Axeman33]

Not saying he's wrong....but Yzerman & Shanny only played a year under Babcock.

It shouldnt even take a year to figure out what type of coach he is.