Canadian Election

[rataylor22]

I would say it's not obvious based on how this thread has gone. Just full of over the top language. Guess I needed to doublecheck.

There is so much misinformation when it comes to how transfer payments work that I've given up trying to explain it to people.

Including, clearly, by people who think they know how they work.

[doulos]

I really don't want to associate this to the Left, but I never saw a left party saying that they will have a balance budget.

Green party has said they plan to balance the budget by 2024-2025
NDP has said they plan to balance the budget by 2024

Whether that is achievable or realistic is another story (I don't honestly believe any of the parties have any realistic plans to actually balance anything ever), but both of those parties have plans to balance the budget.

[doulos]

Including, clearly, by people who think they know how they work.

Sure. It's actually just not a simple matter and that's exactly the problem. It's easier to just blame Quebec for all your problems instead of try and dig into transfer payments, tax rates, population etc.

[Canucks_fan18]

Green party has said they plan to balance the budget by 2024-2025
NDP has said they plan to balance the budget by 2024

Whether that is achievable or realistic is another story (I don't honestly believe any of the parties have any realistic plans to actually balance anything ever), but both of those parties have plans to balance the budget.

Plans or statements?

[doulos]

Plans or statements?

In the world of politics does it make a difference? I get what you're saying, but ACC was saying he never saw a left party say they are going to balance the budget. I just showed that at least two have said exactly that.

I take every single party's "plans" with a giant heap of salt, as I don't believe any of them are very realistic.

[rataylor22]

Sure. It's actually just not a simple matter and that's exactly the problem. It's easier to just blame Quebec for all your problems instead of try and dig into transfer payments, tax rates, population etc.

It's demonstrably true that Western provinces would be better off without transfer payments. It's not about blaming Quebec, it's just a fact. It's exacerbated by the categories not included in the transfer payments formula. Is there a lot of nuance that means it's not as simple as "Quebec hates pipelines but loves Alberta's transfer payments"? Yes. Is it so complicated that the people who constantly say "that's not how transfer payments work you just don't understand" aren't just trying to hide behind a talking point? No.

[rataylor22]

The dirty little secret is that no government balances a budget, no government legitimately plans to balance a budget, and balancing the budget/getting out of debt really isn't all that important. It's an election talking point and not much more.

[ACC90]

In the world of politics does it make a difference? I get what you're saying, but ACC was saying he never saw a left party say they are going to balance the budget. I just showed that at least two have said exactly that.

I take every single party's "plans" with a giant heap of salt, as I don't believe any of them are very realistic.

I agree with you on this, nothing is realistic for all parties.
NPD on his budget will recover 5.8 billion in tax havens.. good luck if they recover 500 million maximum. But it's a sexy plan because it said to people that money will come for the sky

[doulos]

It's demonstrably true that Western provinces would be better off without transfer payments. It's not about blaming Quebec, it's just a fact. It's exacerbated by the categories not included in the transfer payments formula. Is there a lot of nuance that means it's not as simple as "Quebec hates pipelines but loves Alberta's transfer payments"? Yes. Is it so complicated that the people who constantly say "that's not how transfer payments work you just don't understand" aren't just trying to hide behind a talking point? No.

Who cares if it's demonstrably true (would be interested in seeing the data that support this by the way. I actually think you're probably correct, but would be interested in seeing some numbers on it). That's not my point though. My point is that it was made clear by the rant that they don't understand how transfer payments work. But most people don't in my experience. I probably don't fully either, but I've tried to dig into it multiple times, particularly since living in Alberta all you hear is one side of it.

I reject your assertion that I am just trying to hide behind a talking point

[doulos]

I agree with you on this, nothing is realistic for all parties.
NPD on his budget will recover 5.8 billion in tax havens.. good luck if they recover 500 million maximum. But it's a sexy plan because it said to people that money will come for the sky

Exactly. Is it realistic? No, I doubt it. But that's not what you were saying initially. I addressed a very specific point you made.

[Auston'sWilly]

Who cares if it's demonstrably true

LOL, This should just be the campaign slogan for all Libs and Democrats already.
They don't even try to hide it anymore. Truth just doesn't matter.

Remember when AOC said "people are too concerned about being factually correct."
Now Doulos is literally saying who cares about truth ?!

[ACC90]

Exactly. Is it realistic? No, I doubt it. But that's not what you were saying initially. I addressed a very specific point you made.

Saying that they will balance a budget in 2024-2025 is reporting the problem at the next election and is not in the electoral term of the next government

[rataylor22]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-way-you-think

Here's a pretty balanced article indicating I'm both right and wrong. So, it is what it is. Essentially, without transfer payments it would be about the same, but there's also pieces of the formula that Quebec (mainly, but other provinces as well) use to game the system and receive a higher portion of transfer payments.

As has been previously noted, I disagree with the notion at the bottom that it would be harder to build a pipeline through a foreign country. At worst, I think it would be the same.

[doulos]

LOL, This should just be the campaign slogan for all Libs and Democrats already.
They don't even try to hide it anymore. Truth just doesn't matter.

Remember when AOC said "people are too concerned about being factually correct."
Now Doulos is literally saying who cares about truth ?!

Way to completely miss the point.

[doulos]

Saying that they will balance a budget in 2024-2025 is reporting the problem at the next election and is not in the electoral term of the next government

Fair points. Just like everyone else (even the conservatives don't plan on balancing the budget in the next election cycle.) But again, that wasn't what you said.