Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36

Thread: Ghost a good buy-low

  1. #16
    Rep Power
    21

    Dobber Sports Padawan

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by ericdaoust View Post
    Not necessarily. A lot of owners are impulsive and emotional. They just got let down by Ghost.
    I own Gositsbehere in a points-only keeper, and I definitely will not be trading him until he churns out another 50-point-pace season at the very least, Vigneault or not.
    Just speaking personally, I wouldn't consider moving him for anyone less than who is generally perceived to be a 50-point 1st PP QB.
    It's a risk if he turns out to lose those PP minutes like some are anticipating, but I would rather take that risk than trade him for Ryan Suter.

    But, to the point others made, some in fact may be governed more emotionally based on last season's results.

    If I didn't own him, I would definitely be throwing out some offers.
    Good luck to the OP.

  2. #17
    Rep Power
    50

    The Magnificent One

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by stevegamer View Post
    I think 50 is unlikely with Vigneault. I also am expecting some more stupid stuff to go down with the Flyers' D, so be prepared for anything. I'm pretty sure Sanheim, Braun, and Niskanen are on the squad opening night, but it wouldn't surprise me if they move anybody else.
    As noted in my column yesterday, no defenseman IN ANY THE THE 14 FULL SEASONS THAT VIGNEAULT HAS COACHED has scored even 50 points. Buyers beware.
    DobberHockey Senior Writer (columnist since 2012)
    Click here to read my weekly "Roos Lets Loose" columns, going live every Wednesday morning and consisting of a rotating schedule of a "forum buzz" column, a fantasy hockey mailbag, a tournament/poll, and an edition of Goldipucks and the Three Skaters: https://dobberhockey.com/category/ho...key-rick-roos/

  3. #18
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Jedi

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by RizzeeDizzee View Post
    As noted in my column yesterday, no defenseman IN ANY THE THE 14 FULL SEASONS THAT VIGNEAULT HAS COACHED has scored even 50 points. Buyers beware.
    Did Vigneault have ANY Dmen in those 14 years as offensively talented as Ghost? How many Dman that he coached have had 50pt seasons under any other coach?
    Follow me on twitter: @doylelb4

  4. #19
    SeaDawg's Avatar
    SeaDawg is offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    9,647
    Location
    Ottawa
    Rep Power
    50

    The Great One

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    Did Vigneault have ANY Dmen in those 14 years as offensively talented as Ghost? How many Dman that he coached have had 50pt seasons under any other coach?
    exactly...other than Yandle (who he only coached for a partial season), I don't think ANY of the dmen AV has ever coached ever scored over 50 pts in their careers for any team.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

  5. #20
    HonkyTonkMan's Avatar
    HonkyTonkMan is offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,999
    Rep Power
    28

    Dobber Sports Stud

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    exactly...other than Yandle (who he only coached for a partial season), I don't think ANY of the dmen AV has ever coached ever scored over 50 pts in their careers for any team.
    That's exactly what I was thinking.

  6. #21
    SeaDawg's Avatar
    SeaDawg is offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    9,647
    Location
    Ottawa
    Rep Power
    50

    The Great One

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    ok, I just looked it up real quickly...could be wrong but it looks like Malakov and Jovanovski scored over 50 pts once in their careers, and McCabe did it three times. That's it. (As mentioned, McCabe was a young player when AV coached him, so his offensive game wasn't ready yet).

    Basically it is safe to say that AV has never coached a dman of Gostisbehere's skill set/offensive potential.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

  7. #22
    martinc84's Avatar
    martinc84 is offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    312
    Location
    Laval
    Rep Power
    14

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyTonkMan View Post
    That's exactly what I was thinking.
    I agree with that. I really think Ghost rebounds between 50-60 pts. The PP is usually very strong in Philly (except last year) and I think he'll get you 30ish ppts plus more than 200 shots. Last year was an abnomaly imo.

    I paid a 1st and a 2nd pick to get him at the draft (league in sig, 14 teams full keeper) and I think he'll make anybody who acquired him look good.
    14 Team Fantrax, G, A, PIM, SOG, PPP, SHP, Hit, Blk, FO%, GWG+ShGWG, W, L, SV, SV%, SHO
    Max Total Players: 31
    Min Active Players: 0
    Max Active Players: 17
    Max Reserve Players: 4
    Max Injury Reserve Players: 3
    Max Minor League Players: 15

    C- MacKinnon, Seguin (RW), Bergeron, Kuznetsov, Hayes
    LW- Gaudreau, A Lee, Domi (LW), Olofsson (RW)
    RW- P Kane, T Wilson, Dadonov (LW), M Tkachuk (LW)
    D- Hedman, Carlson, Doughty, Spurgeon, Girard

    G-Vasilevskiy, Varlamov, Stalock

    Farm:
    F Hallander, G Denisenko, J Kuokkanen, C Garland, S Noel, A Barre-Boulet, J Marino, C Delia, J Korenar, D Tarasov, U-P Luukkonen, A Werner, J Annunen

  8. #23
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Jedi

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    well actually...

    2010-2011 Christian Erhoff - 50pts.

    Once could argue AV squeezed blood out of a stone to achieve that!

    (09/10- 44 w/ Van)
    (08/09 - 42 w/ SJ)

    everything else... meh
    Follow me on twitter: @doylelb4

  9. #24
    SeaDawg's Avatar
    SeaDawg is offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    9,647
    Location
    Ottawa
    Rep Power
    50

    The Great One

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    well actually...

    2010-2011 Christian Erhoff - 50pts.

    Once could argue AV squeezed blood out of a stone to achieve that!

    (09/10- 44 w/ Van)
    (08/09 - 42 w/ SJ)

    everything else... meh
    good catch

    That begs the question, if AV's system enabled Erhoff to score 50+ pts, then what is Gostisbehere's potential (being far superior to Erhoff)?

    Bottom-line, I don't think we can read too much into AV's system holding back offensive dmen of Gostisbehere's potential (because there really haven't been any).
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

  10. #25
    Location
    Prairies
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Demi-God

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Personally, I think Ghost is a sell.
    Not only is there a new coach (AV), but the old PP-specialist, Kris Knoblauch, has moved on.
    Article here - noting PHI finished 22nd in PP in NHL last year.

    Ghost's big value was manning the PP1.
    I've been his biggest critic there... I think he merely "looked" good there to (masses of) Flyer fans.
    He continually waggled his stick-in-the-air and waited to one-time shots.
    When those one-timers got through (sometimes), went in (seldom)... or popped out for juicy rebounds (seldom), Ghost looked fabulous - he's one of those guys that looks GREAT on highlights.

    But nobody in the NHL does that like him... is that because Ghost is "special"... or because, maybe, it's not the best way to play the PP point.
    I think the latter. I don't like the way he plays that PP1.

    His shots often hit somebody on their way through and pop-out as 50/50 pucks that get cleared down the ice.
    Or the shots rise so high that a goalie just snuggles 'em in.
    Or he just misses wide, which is also often cleared down.

    The Flyers have enough weapons to not centralize on Ghost as primary shooting option. I never liked that.
    Metrics suggest the nearer the shot, the higher the percentage... which counters having Ghost "bombing away" on that PP.

    That's my 2 cents.
    I've been clammoring for a while that Provorov or Sanheim... or now Phillippe Myers should run the PP1.

    Personally, I think Fletcher trades him.
    I'm not a fan.... I'm especially not optimistic of Ghost fantasy-wise with Knoblauch out-of-the picture.
    And, let's not forget that Hextall (who is gone) hired Knoblauch and Hakstol (who is gone) let him manage the PP.

    Different leaders are going to run this team differently.
    They always do.

  11. #26
    SeaDawg's Avatar
    SeaDawg is offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    9,647
    Location
    Ottawa
    Rep Power
    50

    The Great One

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    ...
    You make some excellent points, Pengwin, and as an avid Flyers fan, you know your team as well as anyone.

    Also, we've gone back and forth on Gostisbehere many times in many threads, so I don't want to rehash everything here (again), but for the benefit of the OP and others reading through this thread, I will say this...what you are saying about Gostisbehere's shooting tendencies is absolutely true. However, I feel that Gostisbehere was at his best on the PP when he wasn't just blasting the puck from the point, and I go back to his 65 pt season for this. In that season, Gostisbehere played the half wall a fair bit on the PP, and would swap spots on the fly with Voracek. Gostisbehere would sometimes go back door, do the give-and-go with Voracek, and the result was a lethal PP for the Flyers. For whatever reason, last year Gostisbehere got away from that approach, and the PP really struggled.

    Gostisbehere's strength is not his shot, in that despite being a really hard shot he isn't very good at shooting around players, like you mention. His real strength is his mobility, and that is where he can be a power play threat. He is a one-man transition/break out with the puck. He can skate the puck up the ice as well as anyone, and enter the O-zone often while keeping possession of the puck. Once in the O-zone, he needs to keep moving his feet, swapping spots with Voracek and/or Giroux, and that will make him successful again.

    If I can see this as a casual fan, I hope the people responsible for coaching the PP can see this and will encourage Gostisbehere to get back to what made him successful in the past.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

  12. #27
    Location
    Prairies
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Demi-God

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    ^Fair Enough.
    But you would agree that new GMs and new coaches will make changes... (*cough*Braun*cough... cough*Niskanen*cough*) simply so they can take some credit on things.
    SOMETHING is gonna be changed on a 22nd ranked PP... obv, Simmonds is gone... but we shall see if there are other major changes.
    I think exploring another D-man on PP1 is a fair possibility.

    (But yeah, Ghost on the half-wall worked better than Ghost center-point. I agree with you there... you know your Flyers too!!! Some REP for you!)



    GOOOOO FLYERS!

  13. #28
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Jedi

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    But how does one explain J. Faulk in Carolina continually getting PP1 time with much less production than Ghost in Philly over the past 3 years?
    Follow me on twitter: @doylelb4

  14. #29
    SeaDawg's Avatar
    SeaDawg is offline
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    9,647
    Location
    Ottawa
    Rep Power
    50

    The Great One

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    ^Fair Enough.
    But you would agree that new GMs and new coaches will make changes... (*cough*Braun*cough... cough*Niskanen*cough*) simply so they can take some credit on things.
    SOMETHING is gonna be changed on a 22nd ranked PP... obv, Simmonds is gone... but we shall see if there are other major changes.
    I think exploring another D-man on PP1 is a fair possibility.

    (But yeah, Ghost on the half-wall worked better than Ghost center-point. I agree with you there... you know your Flyers too!!! Some REP for you!)
    Oh, for sure. A new coach/GM means changes are coming for sure. I'm not sure what those changes will be, though. Perhaps putting Konecny on the PP (instead of Simmonds) is change enough. Maybe the changes aren't with PP personnel and more with approach...I really don't know. Time will tell...but for all the reasons I've listed in this thread, and others I won't get into, I feel confident that Gostisbehere will rebound. Cross my fingers anyway, because he is one of my favorite players and I own him in my favorite league (full bias on display here, though I feel my bias is rooted in sound logic ).

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    But how does one explain J. Faulk in Carolina continually getting PP1 time with much less production than Ghost in Philly over the past 3 years?
    one of the great hockey mysteries right there...
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

  15. #30
    Rep Power
    50

    The Magnificent One

    Default Re: Ghost a good buy-low

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    good catch

    That begs the question, if AV's system enabled Erhoff to score 50+ pts, then what is Gostisbehere's potential (being far superior to Erhoff)?

    Bottom-line, I don't think we can read too much into AV's system holding back offensive dmen of Gostisbehere's potential (because there really haven't been any).
    Wow - you really want to find a reason to think Ghost will do well. I'm here to tell you he won't, and Vigneault's coaching system will have a lot to do with it.

    Reminds me of fetch and Mean Girls. Put it to rest - fetch isn't going to happen!
    DobberHockey Senior Writer (columnist since 2012)
    Click here to read my weekly "Roos Lets Loose" columns, going live every Wednesday morning and consisting of a rotating schedule of a "forum buzz" column, a fantasy hockey mailbag, a tournament/poll, and an edition of Goldipucks and the Three Skaters: https://dobberhockey.com/category/ho...key-rick-roos/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •