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Thread: Group A or Group B

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    Default Group A or Group B

    In a points-only format, which group do you prefer.

    Group A
    Brayden Point
    Kevin Labanc
    Josh Morrissey


    Group B
    Filip Forsberg
    Matt Barzal
    Cale Makar
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: N. Kucherov, B. Point, T. Meier, G. Landeskog, E. Lindholm, F. Forsberg
    Defense: S. Gostisbehere, M. Heiskanen, J. Trouba, S. Girard
    Goalie: P. Grubauer, S. Varlamov

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    I'm going to say A, but that is very close. Especially in two years once Makar has really settled in...
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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Group B.

    Barzal < Point but maybe by 5-10 points?
    Forsberg > Labanc because of contract and PP opportunities, Forsberg is a sure bet for PP1 whereas Labanc has to compete with Meier, Kane, etc
    Makar > Morrissey because of PP opportunities
    ---------------------------------------------
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    Categories: G / A / PTS / +/- / PIM / PPP / SOG / HIT -- GS / W / GAA / S% / Shutouts

    C:
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    LW:
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    RW:
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    D:
    Dumba, Nurse, Gustafsson, Edler
    G:
    , Dubnyk, Georgiev, Saros



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    Categories:
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    C: Larkin, Zibanejad, Pettersson
    LW: Gusev, Brady Tkachuk, Bertuzzi
    RW: Wilson, J. Anderson, Athanasiou
    D: Doughty, Nurse, Edler, Gudas
    G: Raanta, Kuemper, Varlamov

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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Group B is the safer side for me.

    Gun to my head i'd take Group B, but I think it would also depend on the rest of my roster.
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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    In a points-only format, which group do you prefer.

    Group A
    Brayden Point
    Kevin Labanc
    Josh Morrissey


    Group B
    Filip Forsberg
    Matt Barzal
    Cale Makar
    Some scoring ranges off the cuff:

    A
    Point - 75-90
    Labanc - 45-65
    Morrissey - 30-50

    B
    Forsberg - 65-80
    Barzal - 70-90
    Makar - 25-60

    *

    Point is the best player here, but this seems like a good chance to buy sell high while buying low on Forsberg and Barzal. Makar's swing potential is massive here.
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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Barzal < Point but maybe by 5-10 points?
    I'm surprised by how close you have Barzal to Point. There was a 30 pt difference last season: Point had 92 pts (in 78 games) and Barzal had 62 pts (in 82 games). Do you foresee Barzal having a big jump in production next year or Point having a major regression?
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: N. Kucherov, B. Point, T. Meier, G. Landeskog, E. Lindholm, F. Forsberg
    Defense: S. Gostisbehere, M. Heiskanen, J. Trouba, S. Girard
    Goalie: P. Grubauer, S. Varlamov

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    I'm surprised by how close you have Barzal to Point. There was a 30 pt difference last season: Point had 92 pts (in 78 games) and Barzal had 62 pts (in 82 games). Do you foresee Barzal having a big jump in production next year or Point having a major regression?
    mix of both.

    I think Point overachieved (Tampa Bay really had an incredible season), but i think everyone in their team will regress this year. Kucherov won't do 128 pts. I would say Point goes to 80-85 points

    Barzal had a 85 point season before last one (62). I think it was just the typical 2nd year for all rookies to be in a slump. he will at least finish in the middle of 85 and 62. I think he will rebecome a PPG player this year. lets say 75-80 points.
    ---------------------------------------------
    14 team keeper - Keep 6
    Categories: G / A / PTS / +/- / PIM / PPP / SOG / HIT -- GS / W / GAA / S% / Shutouts

    C:
    Aho, R johansen, Couturier, Getzlaf
    LW:
    ,Matthew Tkachuk, Brady Tkachuk, Hall
    RW:
    josh anderson, konecny
    D:
    Dumba, Nurse, Gustafsson, Edler
    G:
    , Dubnyk, Georgiev, Saros



    -----------------------

    14 team keeper - Keep 5
    Categories:
    G / A / PTS / +/- / PIM / PPP / SOG / HIT / FOW / BLK -- W / GAA / SAVES / Shutouts

    C: Larkin, Zibanejad, Pettersson
    LW: Gusev, Brady Tkachuk, Bertuzzi
    RW: Wilson, J. Anderson, Athanasiou
    D: Doughty, Nurse, Edler, Gudas
    G: Raanta, Kuemper, Varlamov

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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    interesting...

    Thanks for the input, everyone. This isn't a straight trade, but a combination of a few moves that would ultimately land me either Group A or Group B.

    FWIW, it may not even happen (likely won't, actually) because I was offered Girard and countered by asking for Makar instead.

    If Makar was replaced with Girard, I assume that, like me, you'd all go with Group A.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: N. Kucherov, B. Point, T. Meier, G. Landeskog, E. Lindholm, F. Forsberg
    Defense: S. Gostisbehere, M. Heiskanen, J. Trouba, S. Girard
    Goalie: P. Grubauer, S. Varlamov

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    interesting...

    Thanks for the input, everyone. This isn't a straight trade, but a combination of a few moves that would ultimately land me either Group A or Group B.

    FWIW, it may not even happen (likely won't, actually) because I was offered Girard and countered by asking for Makar instead.

    If Makar was replaced with Girard, I assume that, like me, you'd all go with Group A.
    I don't know, I think it's possible that Girard is the PP guy for the near term, much like the situation in Boston if Krug were to be dealt where it's very possible Grzelcyk would get the pp instead of McAvoy I think the same could be true in Colorado where people are surprised to find that, at least in the near term Girard is the go to. I personally think that Girard is underestimated, not on merit, but by comparison and pedigree. People see Makar as the bigger name and automatically and unjustifiably bump Girard down a peg because of that. Not taking anything away from Makar, long term he's probably the answer, but even those waters are muddy if you consider that Byram is waiting in the wings as well.

    When all is said and done I think I would personally avoid that situation all together and take the A side. You're getting the best player, you're getting upside that's at least comparable and you're getting more certainty (imo).
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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    I would also go with Group B, though not with Girard in place of Makar.
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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Group B wins


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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    I think it's really close, so I'll side with Group A and Brayden Point. I think he's the highest upside player in the group, and since the two groups are roughly even I'll prefer the group with the most valuable single asset.

    Point = 90ish
    Labanc = 60ish
    Morrissey = 40ish

    Roughly 190 points

    Barzal = 70ish
    Forsberg = 70ish
    Makar = 50ish

    Roughly 190 points

    If you think Barzal is going to reach another level on a Trotz-coached team, or if you think Forsberg is finally going to reach his point-per-game upside, I can see going with group B. Like I said, it's very close all things considered.
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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    I agree 100% with mounD assessment with the caveat that I don't think Makar gets to 50 and I don't think Forsberg gets to 70. Being a Forsberg owner, I'd love for it to be true but I'm setting my expectation a little lower. I might be a little more conservative on Labanc (55ish) but I still prefer that side to net you more reliable numbers over the long term.
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    Pro Roster Starters: 9 F, 6 D 1 G

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    D: Chychrun, Keith, Trouba, Vatanen, Green, Karlsson
    G: Raanta/Keumper, Dubnyk

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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Quote Originally Posted by mounD View Post
    I think it's really close, so I'll side with Group A and Brayden Point. I think he's the highest upside player in the group, and since the two groups are roughly even I'll prefer the group with the most valuable single asset.

    Point = 90ish
    Labanc = 60ish
    Morrissey = 40ish

    Roughly 190 points

    Barzal = 70ish
    Forsberg = 70ish
    Makar = 50ish

    Roughly 190 points

    If you think Barzal is going to reach another level on a Trotz-coached team, or if you think Forsberg is finally going to reach his point-per-game upside, I can see going with group B. Like I said, it's very close all things considered.
    This is almost exactly what I was going on in the first post, except I had Labanc at 55, Forsberg at 65, Morrissey at 35, and Makar at 40. Same idea though, and always easier to then try and get an upgrade on Labanc/Morrissey instead of trading for someone better than Barzal.
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    Default Re: Group A or Group B

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimo Brother View Post
    ...always easier to then try and get an upgrade on Labanc/Morrissey instead of trading for someone better than Barzal.
    This is it (and I know we've discussed part of this in the Labanc thread yesterday)...I have Point already and the potential to acquire Labanc and Morrissey. I could theoretically substitute Labanc with a similar salary player with higher upside (Keller, Dubois, Svechnikov, Hischier). I know that further confuses the situation and I didn't want to weigh this question down with too many details.

    I just wanted to know if this was close to even or an obvious decision between Group A and Group B. From the sounds of it, it is a close call to most people, so now I am starting to think about the assets I'd need to use to acquire the missing players (Labanc, Morrissey, Barzal, and Makar) as well as consider if I could spend a bit more to get an upgrade on Labanc, etc.

    Lots of moving pieces...at least I now know my instincts were correct in that this is a tough call and I was correct to ask for Makar over Girard (from the initial trade offer I received).

    Thanks all for the feedback.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: N. Kucherov, B. Point, T. Meier, G. Landeskog, E. Lindholm, F. Forsberg
    Defense: S. Gostisbehere, M. Heiskanen, J. Trouba, S. Girard
    Goalie: P. Grubauer, S. Varlamov

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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