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Thread: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

  1. #16
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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Glatt View Post
    I think part of the good news here is that the Flyers didnt really give anything up, Gudas and a couple of picks isnt overly lamentable.
    They gave up future prospects. #41 overall is a decent shot to land a player like Nolan Foote.

    And they gave up some cap space for this year for signing RFA's and maybe a UFA that will help them longer term than one year of Braun.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    41st overall - plus a third rounder! - seems pretty steep, especially with Braun only having a year left. To provide some context to what 41st overall can net you, chew on these names (Roman Josi - 38th overall), P.K. Subban (43rd overall), Milan Lucic (50th overall), Paul Stastny (44th overall), Jakub Silfverberg (39th overall), Justin Faulk (37th overall), to name a few.
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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    I actually don't mind the moves to acquire Niskanen and now Braun. By all accounts, the Flyers biggest need was for a right-handed, shutdown defense man, and they just got two and gave up relatively little. Niskanen and Braun are not long-term answers, but considering all the talk of the Flyers depth with up-and-coming young dmen, I don't mind grabbing two veterans as stop-gap measures.
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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Yeah... trading away the #41 overall bothers me.
    There's some good players there at #40+ if you look at the last 5 drafts.
    There's this "cut-off" where a lot of people have gotten used to "1st round picks" having the NHL player-value. This old-thought that the key value is only those first 30 picks...
    Old guys (Fletcher, here) overlooking the 2nd round.
    But there's such a rise of good young skating among hockey players these days, that we're seeing more like 1.5 rounds of players permeate into the NHL and push out the old guard.

    2014: Montour (55), Donato (56), Dvorak (58), Foegele (67), Point (79), Arvidsson (112), Labanc (171)
    2015: Cernak (43), Sprong (46), Hintz (49), Greenway (50), Guhle (51), R. Andersson (53), Dunn (57), Cirelli (72)
    2016: Debrincat (39), S.Girard (47), C.Hart (48), Hronek (53), Parsons (54), A.Fox (66)
    2017: Texier (45), Comtois (50), Studnicka (53), UPL (54), I.Mitchell (57), Batherson (121)
    2018: Wilde (41), Perunovich (45), A.Thomas (51)

  5. #20
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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Schlemko and Myers are probably going to the AHL. Unless Gost gets traded like the rumors are saying.
    I liked the Niskanen trade, but this one... meh.

    If I'm not mistaken, Morin needs to go through the waivers to play in the AHL.

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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Yeah... trading away the #41 overall bothers me.
    There's some good players there at #40+ if you look at the last 5 drafts.
    There's this "cut-off" where a lot of people have gotten used to "1st round picks" having the NHL player-value. This old-thought that the key value is only those first 30 picks...
    Old guys (Fletcher, here) overlooking the 2nd round.
    But there's such a rise of good young skating among hockey players these days, that we're seeing more like 1.5 rounds of players permeate into the NHL and push out the old guard.

    2014: Montour (55), Donato (56), Dvorak (58), Foegele (67), Point (79), Arvidsson (112), Labanc (171)
    2015: Cernak (43), Sprong (46), Hintz (49), Greenway (50), Guhle (51), R. Andersson (53), Dunn (57), Cirelli (72)
    2016: Debrincat (39), S.Girard (47), C.Hart (48), Hronek (53), Parsons (54), A.Fox (66)
    2017: Texier (45), Comtois (50), Studnicka (53), UPL (54), I.Mitchell (57), Batherson (121)
    2018: Wilde (41), Perunovich (45), A.Thomas (51)
    Don't take this the wrong way, Peng, but there are a lot more "misses" than "hits" once you get into the 2nd round (and of course beyond). You can cherry picks the relatively few good selections in any round in any year (harder as you get deeper into the draft), but there is far from a guarantee that the Flyers would get an NHL player with the 41st pick. Instead, they get two righties to play some defense. As much as Fletcher maybe doesn't deserve a lot of credit, he has gone out and gotten two of what the team desperately needed. I'm not sure there were better deals out there to be made. I'm sure he was trying hard to get Trouba and once that fell through, the available right-handed dmen aren't all that impressive, so going with the stop-gap makes more sense to me.
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    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    They gave up future prospects. #41 overall is a decent shot to land a player like Nolan Foote.

    And they gave up some cap space for this year for signing RFA's and maybe a UFA that will help them longer term than one year of Braun.
    The Flyers are ready to move past the stockpiling young talent stage. They have plenty at all positions. Now its time to begin the winning. And you dont do that with just a bunch of 22 year old prospects. Ask the Coyotes and Soilers how that build model plays out.

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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    Don't take this the wrong way, Peng, but there are a lot more "misses" than "hits" once you get into the 2nd round (and of course beyond). You can cherry picks the relatively few good selections in any round in any year (harder as you get deeper into the draft), but there is far from a guarantee that the Flyers would get an NHL player with the 41st pick. Instead, they get two righties to play some defense. As much as Fletcher maybe doesn't deserve a lot of credit, he has gone out and gotten two of what the team desperately needed. I'm not sure there were better deals out there to be made. I'm sure he was trying hard to get Trouba and once that fell through, the available right-handed dmen aren't all that impressive, so going with the stop-gap makes more sense to me.
    Oh - I completely agree/understand that it is hit/miss in the 2nd round... but I've been fond of Flyer draft picks (i.e. their scouting) from the last three drafts in the 2nd round (Laberge*, Hart, Allison* in 2016, Ratcliffe in 2017**, Ginning in 2018). *Laberge & Allison have had unfortunate injuries. **Although not a "2nd round pick": Morgan Frost was a trade-up late 1st round pick, 27th overall, in 2017 (for B.Schenn) and I've been very intently watching Frost's progression based on Philly making that trade in advance of that pick.

    So... I have a lot of recent faith in the Flyers scouting dept - and what they conveyed to Hextall for past draft picks.


    As for Niskanen & Braun... IDK... you can say "shutdown RH" all you want - and I know you watch your share of hockey - but these two guys... head down, shaking... they're not getting better.
    Niskanen is NOTICEABLY more exposed out there. I watched the Caps probably play 10-15 games last year and nothing about his playing was even middling to me, any longer.
    And Braun, similarly, yes - he is experienced, but he just seems like he's fading.

    Both those guys - they aren't who they USED to be.
    GMs (who are more hockey-centric, then us) should see this acutely... but I'm not sure Fletcher does... or cares to.

    For any new GM, the goal is always to turn-over enough of the roster so that:
    1) It looks like you are doing YOUR JOB, and
    2) So that if the team does well, enough credit can be passed to the GM, because the line-up is noticeably different than the previous GMs line-up.

    Personally, I'd rather they had every-day 3rd line minutes for Phillipe Myers.
    (Morin I don't care about... that was a bad pick, fine, he's not going to be an NHL top two-pairing guy)

    Overall - with what the Flyers have grabbed in recent years in that 25-45 range... I certainly think they should have held that pick. My 2 cents.

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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    I hear ya, Peng. It can't be easy being the GM for the Flyers when EVERYONE is saying "they need a right-handed shutdown dman". Like I said, I imagine they were actively involved in the Trouba negotiations (he would have been a perfect fit), but it likely would have cost them their first and someone like Pionk (not sure who that is on the Flyers, tbh...maybe Gostisbehere, though I think Gost is much better than Pionk).

    Anyway, with all the pressure he is under to find the coveted RHD, Fletcher managed to get two. As long as one of Niskanen and Braun can play decent hockey, the team will be much improved. Only one of those players really has to work out and be able to play 16-17 mins a game. It might not work out, but they are probably thinking that having Niskanen play top 4 minutes instead of Myers is better for the team overall and for Myers' development.
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    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
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    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Peng, you know the team better than me, but is this how you see the D pairings shaking out?

    Sanheim - Niskanen
    Provorov - Braun
    Gostisbehere - Myers
    Hagg

    Gostisbehere often plays RHD despite being a lefty...is he better as a righty, or was that only a necessity of the team not having enough righties??

    I really like Gostisbehere on the right side paired with Sanheim, but if they did that then either Braun or Myers needs to play the off wing, or Hagg roles into the top 6 and Braun or Myers sit out.

    This is what I'd go with, if I were the coach:
    Sanheim - Gostisbehere
    Provorov - Niskanen
    Hagg - Myers
    Braun
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Oh - I completely agree/understand that it is hit/miss in the 2nd round... but I've been fond of Flyer draft picks (i.e. their scouting) from the last three drafts in the 2nd round (Laberge*, Hart, Allison* in 2016, Ratcliffe in 2017**, Ginning in 2018). *Laberge & Allison have had unfortunate injuries. **Although not a "2nd round pick": Morgan Frost was a trade-up late 1st round pick, 27th overall, in 2017 (for B.Schenn) and I've been very intently watching Frost's progression based on Philly making that trade in advance of that pick.

    So... I have a lot of recent faith in the Flyers scouting dept - and what they conveyed to Hextall for past draft picks.


    As for Niskanen & Braun... IDK... you can say "shutdown RH" all you want - and I know you watch your share of hockey - but these two guys... head down, shaking... they're not getting better.
    Niskanen is NOTICEABLY more exposed out there. I watched the Caps probably play 10-15 games last year and nothing about his playing was even middling to me, any longer.
    And Braun, similarly, yes - he is experienced, but he just seems like he's fading.

    Both those guys - they aren't who they USED to be.
    GMs (who are more hockey-centric, then us) should see this acutely... but I'm not sure Fletcher does... or cares to.

    For any new GM, the goal is always to turn-over enough of the roster so that:
    1) It looks like you are doing YOUR JOB, and
    2) So that if the team does well, enough credit can be passed to the GM, because the line-up is noticeably different than the previous GMs line-up.

    Personally, I'd rather they had every-day 3rd line minutes for Phillipe Myers.
    (Morin I don't care about... that was a bad pick, fine, he's not going to be an NHL top two-pairing guy)

    Overall - with what the Flyers have grabbed in recent years in that 25-45 range... I certainly think they should have held that pick. My 2 cents.
    New GM... how much do you think that will affect their draft strategy/type of player targeted? Recent track record may hold less weight than if Ron still ran the show
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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    New GM... how much do you think that will affect their draft strategy/type of player targeted? Recent track record may hold less weight than if Ron still ran the show
    I have no clue... but like defensemen and a goalie, it can take a long time for both parties to learn how much they trust each other.
    It will take time for Fletcher to learn the PHI scouts... and for the PHI scouts to learn Fletcher.
    But they won't get much chance to work with each other now that the 2nd rounder being traded away.

    With PHI drafting at #11, I'm guessing they already have their top 12 player list made.
    Fletcher never really showed a hand towards preferring F vs D... I think he does just go with BPA.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    I was really liking the #41 overall pick for the Flyers in the draft... I was hoping they would get Nolan Foote there. He scored 36 goals this year with a partially fractured wrist.

    I am predicting that San Jose picks Foote and he becomes a 40 goal scorer in the NHL...

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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Glatt View Post
    I think part of the good news here is that the Flyers didnt really give anything up, Gudas and a couple of picks isnt overly lamentable.
    You don't understand, this is the tip of the iceberg of stupid that we are seeing right now.
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    Default Re: [Trade] Braun to Flyers for 41OA pick

    Quote Originally Posted by stevegamer View Post
    You don't understand, this is the tip of the iceberg of stupid that we are seeing right now.
    Worth some REP... since a few hours later the Floppers signed Kevin Hayes to about $20m too much.

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