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Thread: Craig Buttons Final "List"

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    Default Craig Buttons Final "List"

    I will start by saying that this is not a mock draft, but more of a ranking on how HE likes them and would rank them if he were still a scout today, like he was many years ago. We all know that different scouts have different things that they like and dislike about certain players; Button is no different. I was surprised to see some where they were but that's the allure of reading different reports on rankings.

    Anyway, if you haven't seen them yet, here is how Craig Button likes this years draft class.

    https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-cauf...op-5-1.1316942
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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    Meh.
    Button has been my least favourite (of the major) prospect rankers for years.
    While I agree that Caufield is seen as a riser... I just can't get over his NHL value being higher than Turcotte (10) or Cozens (14).
    I think Caufield may score points quicker than everybody not named Hughes/Kakko... because diminuitive wingers have a shifty place in the still-large NHL.
    Boldy at #5 is still a stretch, as well, IMO. I just can't see any teams taking him over Turcotte.

    All that said, for as much as I criticize Button... his final 2018 top end draft ranking was REALLY good (he even had the surprise pick, Hayton, at #6 - and he went #5):
    https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-svec...spot-1.1103996

    I will also say, though, that it seems a bit flaky that Button had Kravtsov at #23 in his 2018 final rankings,
    then Button goes #9 to NYR,
    and then by mid-this-year, Button has Kravtsov as his #1 (drafted) prospect (not in NHL).
    I mean, c'mon... that's admittedly stating that you totally whiffed on analyzing that guy.

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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    Pretty sure Button releases controversial rankings on purpose.
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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    It's hard for me call any of them out because most of those guys actually spend time in the rinks watching these kids. At least that's what I have read about guys like Pronman and Button. They are really the only two that I can say I am comfortable reading with any faith in. Sure, they both have a tendency to put out some head scratchers but who am I to question what they like and don't like. I am just an armchair GM with zero professional scouting experience.

    They all hit some, and they all miss some. Sounds like actual NHL GMs eh.
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    G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger


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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    Pretty sure Button releases controversial rankings on purpose.
    A lot of them do this here and there. That's why you need a lot of different people's rankings put together to come up with a consensus.


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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Meh.
    Button has been my least favourite (of the major) prospect rankers for years.
    While I agree that Caufield is seen as a riser... I just can't get over his NHL value being higher than Turcotte (10) or Cozens (14).
    I think Caufield may score points quicker than everybody not named Hughes/Kakko... because diminuitive wingers have a shifty place in the still-large NHL.
    Boldy at #5 is still a stretch, as well, IMO. I just can't see any teams taking him over Turcotte.

    All that said, for as much as I criticize Button... his final 2018 top end draft ranking was REALLY good (he even had the surprise pick, Hayton, at #6 - and he went #5):
    https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-svec...spot-1.1103996

    I will also say, though, that it seems a bit flaky that Button had Kravtsov at #23 in his 2018 final rankings,
    then Button goes #9 to NYR,
    and then by mid-this-year, Button has Kravtsov as his #1 (drafted) prospect (not in NHL).
    I mean, c'mon... that's admittedly stating that you totally whiffed on analyzing that guy.
    It's easy to pick at someone's rankings in the years to come. NOBODY gets it even a little bit right as we are looking at 17 and 18 year olds and trying to predict how they will turn out as pros. Cherry picking misses on specific rankings is just cheap. At the Athletic, both Wheeler and Pronman run retrospective articles re-ranking their drafts rankings and evaluating where they went wrong and why. Pronman especially likes to review his rationale and then evaluate whether or not he was off base and what he learned from it.

    Button has long been a favourite whipping boy on the chat sites but I think he's an astute observer and I look forward to his rankings. I wish he would provide more commentary, though. For example, I'd like to know why Cozens fell from to 14 from 4 in his previous ranking.

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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    Soderstrom (#25) and Suzuki (#29) surprised me
    But like you said, it is a prospect ranking according to him.

    Some player would be drafted at specifics ranks
    For example, Spencer Knight by Florida (13), Ottawa (19), Calgary (26), Carolina (28)

    I think I never saw a draft that the margin between #3 and #20 is so thin!
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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift Disturber View Post
    It's easy to pick at someone's rankings in the years to come. NOBODY gets it even a little bit right as we are looking at 17 and 18 year olds and trying to predict how they will turn out as pros. Cherry picking misses on specific rankings is just cheap.

    I don't appreciate that you quoted my post and then said "cherry picking misses... is just cheap".
    I make a lot of predictions myself and hate when people do that - so trust me, I'm NOT doing it.
    [And if you weren't directing that specifically at me - then don't quote my post, it certain infers that I'm being "cheap".]

    My point on Button, though, w.r.t. Kravtsov is a point of inconsistency - which is worth noting.

    If he wants to peg Kravtsov at #23 in his June 2018 rankings, fine.
    And perhaps Kravtsov gets drafted in late June at #9, fine.
    Yes... nobody is going to get all of their rankings note, agreed.

    But then, 6-7 months later, Button's got Kravtsov at #1. (and this is with guys like Makar, Q.Hughes, Zadina, Necas, and Hayton all having very solid years).
    Personally, I see that as:
    i) Button putting too much stock in the u20 Jr tourney, and
    ii) Button "hedging" his previous rank by shifting Kravtsov to #1 in another ranking.

    See, now he's got a listed ranking with Kravtsov at #23 (2018-06-04) and another listed ranking with Kravtsov at #1 (2019-01-15).
    Button can now (in the future) play whatever stance he wants w.r.t. Kravtsov:
    *If Kravtsov doesn't pan out, Button can reference that #23 spot in a list
    *If Kravtsov does pan out, Button can reference that #1 spot in a list


    I mean, people DO change their stance on players, but that's a BIG change over a 6-month period.
    And all Kravtsov had to show in that 6-month period was a sort of standard rookie-struggle in the first half of his KHL season... and the JR tournament.
    IDK - there's not enough there.
    Button, IMO, should be saying "I missed (....) when I ranked Kravtsov at #23 in my 2018 June ranking."

    THAT is something that Pronman & Wheeler do - yes - absolutely - which makes them respectable.
    Another guy I like is Chris Peters (who can be read over at ESPN+).

    But the Kravtsov-ranking is case-in-point that Button isn't consistent with his evals - which suggests he's kind of throwing darts... and I can't respect that.

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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    I would never pay for ESPNs service so I guess I'll just have to rely on the ones I read. The Athletic is the only service I pay for when it comes to sports reporting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would never pay for ESPNs service so I guess I'll just have to rely on the ones I read. The Athletic is the only service I pay for when it comes to sports reporting.
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    G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger


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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    P7, you're one of the top posters on this site and someone whose opinion I hold in high regard. But, if you put a posting on this site, anyone is free to quote it.

    I said you were cherry picking because you selected one example, Kravtsov, to demonstrate that Button is inconsistent and then went on to infer motivation on his part with this example. I have no idea how you could determine Button's motivation. I follow many draft rankings and they all have at least a few contrarian picks that seem to be attention getting and/or irrational. I think the mass movement to boost Caufield up 10 or so spots by many commentators is a bit of a collective knee-jerk reaction, for example.

    All of the commentators can selectively point out their contrarian rankings that turned out to be correct, Button is certainly not the only one. Anyway, I like him, you don't, we all have our favourite guys, it's all good.

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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    Anyone is an expert compared to me so as much as I'm not a Button fan, I still value his opinions. He did give us Kipper, even with some help from Sutter, so he does have a little place in my heart.
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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    The reason it’s easy to not put value in much Button says is because we have a significant draft record to show his opinions and scouting are trash, and we have a post career TSN record that isn’t much better.

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    Default Re: Craig Buttons Final "List"

    embarrassing

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