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Thread: Possible collusion and what possible penalties should be enforced

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Possible collusion and what possible penalties should be enforced

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Oof. What a story.
    Collusion? Yes.
    This is actually the definition of collusion, if you check a dictionary.

    From Merriam-Webster:
    Definition of collusion
    : secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose

    Secret agreement or cooperation: yes.
    Illegal: no, but
    Deceitful: yes.

    Personally, I'd say the penalty is that the colluding parties should pay you a "2nd place winnings". Call this "Event A".
    This is what you would/should have earned if the colluding trade had not occurred.
    Let them figure out how much each team should pay. They can collect it and give it to you in one envelope.

    If you made this proposal, though, they would push back with an argument of "But (ultimately) we didn't get the 1st place winnings.. and YOU did."
    That argument doesn't matter.
    You sacrificed future assets - and your reward is a 1st place winnings.
    This is your choice... and there's no way to accurately compute those "damages".
    But this decision can be considered a separate "event", call it Event "B", from what would have taken place if the collusive trade had not happened (Event "A").

    From Event A: 3 colluding teams pay you an amount of "2nd place winnings".
    From Event B: You won first place, but sacrificed your team's future assets to do it.

    My 2 cents.

    [FWIW - I used to help a buddy with these "points carry" leagues. They are stupid. Eventually... when your leaguemates get smart... nobody makes "in-season" trades any more. GMs simply link-up as a "GoingForIt"/"Rebuilding" pair. They wait exactly until the last minute of trade deadline... and then pull off the best deal they can. Any trades made more than minutes before the trade deadline is mathematically - amateur. That's a GM showing his hand... which is why you were able to rally for 1st... because you had time to organize a counter-move. The guy that was in first made his move too early. Really not too bright about how to pull off this heist. Great that you caught him! ***But, again, these formats are stupid and... eventually... your leaguemates will get hip, only pull-off trades minutes before the deadline. If they happen to not visit this forum - then you've now got the secret for future years... though eventually others will do the same - which is what happened in my buddy's league after I tought him how to do it that way. Good luck.]
    While I agree with this for this specific league, I'd also suggest points only leagues (where points are traded over) can work if you have owners with integrity. I've been involved in a league like this for 6 years (league is entering it's 10th year) and I've never seen anything remotely resembling collusion. Managers meet in person to draft. And while rebuilding happens, teams still have to give up significant future pieces in order go for the win. (As an example, I trade McDavid in his rookie year - when he was injured - for Tavares and a crap load of veterans for a points boost to win). These types of leagues can work if you have GMs who play with integrity.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Possible collusion and what possible penalties should be enforced

    "The manager that was originally in first and the other two (one is commish) admit that those bump up deals were done to keep me out of 2nd and the good money."

    That is 1000% collusion
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  3. #18
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    Default Re: Possible collusion and what possible penalties should be enforced

    This sounds like a terrible league. I'd have saved myself the 3000 word post and just found a better one to join.
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  4. #19
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    Default Re: Possible collusion and what possible penalties should be enforced

    This is definitely collusion, but I wouldn't worry about the penalties. I would leave the league. Even if your league decides to bring in a rule that does give a penalty in the future, that would just make it more likely the people in this league wouldn't admit to the collusion in the future. Better just to leave the league and be done with it.

    Also, I am in two pools where points carry over in trades (including the one with als_revenge that has been going on for 10 years). They can work excellently if done correctly.

    Writer of the weekly Top 10 column.

    12-team Keeper pool, straight points for forwards & dmen. Goalies get: 2 points per win, 3 per shutout, 1 point per assist & 1 point per shootout loss.

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  5. #20
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    Default Re: Possible collusion and what possible penalties should be enforced

    Its collusion for sure.
    Leave the league.
    How could you even continue?
    No matter what comes of it, you're mindset is tainted now - so best to just move on, find yourself a better league and get back to enjoying fantasy hockey!

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