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Thread: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

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    Default A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    I decided to "retool" the club this year after losing the grip on a playoff spot. Ok, it was more a matchstick and explosives type situation than a retool. Question is, has my team improved moving forward?

    Last year going into the beginning of the season, I had Crosby, Benn, Ghost, F. Andersen, and Barkov as my 5 veteran keepers and M. Tkachuk, Keller, Montour, Pulock and Gourde as my 5 rookie keepers. Our rookie system is a bit complicated but it is a big advantage to have as many rookies (under 170 NHL games played) to maximize man games played per week. All of my rookies (except Keller and Pulock) expired midway through the season, so I had to "graduate" them to my main roster, which left the rookie cupboards bare.

    So, after quite a few trades and moves, this next year I am going into the season with Point, Hall, Stone, M.Tkachuk, and Klingberg as my 5 veteran keepers. My 5 rookie keepers are PL Dubois, Q. Hughes, Gusev, T. Terry, and Kaprizov (whom I acquired for nothing and can wait on my bench/farm till he arrives). I also won the lottery draft so I will pick between J. Hughes and K. Kakko (probably go with Hughes). I also acquired draft picks including a 3rd Rd pick, 5th Rd pick, and 6th Rd pick in the redraft and a 1st Rd pick (4th overall) in the rookie draft so I should be able to draft a Cozens-type prospect.

    A few points about my moves/decisions:
    - I think Benn is on the verge of the inevitable cliff, as an aging power forward who plays a hard game. He was the main piece that I got Hall for in return.
    - I did not want to keep Andersen (again) because goalies are too fickle. Value in net can be found elsewhere.
    - Ghost killed me this year and had to go.
    - I traded Barkov right before he exploded to end the season. Oops. But I got Dubois in return and draft picks.
    - Tough to lose Sid, but I went for youth, untapped ceiling, and a cushy fantasy spot in TBay and traded for Point (and also got Stone in the deal)
    - I wanted to acquire some blue chipper prospects that I can build with and keep for years, i.e. the Hughes bros, Gusev, Kaprizov, Terry

    So, do you think my team has improved, regressed, or is it a wash?
    Weekly matchup, 10-teams, 25 man roster, play 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 4D, 2G per night
    Multi-cat league: G (4), A (2.5), SOG (0.2), HIT (0.2), BLKS (0.2), PPP, GWG, PIMS (0.2), +/- (+/-0.5) - skaters
    W (3), S/O (5), each save (0.2), each GA (-1)

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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    The Barkov deal is probably the only one where I thought you lost value. Maybe it's nitpicking but you also have 2 I jury prone keepers now in Hall and Stone, I hope you get some luck on that end
    Otherwise I don't think you screwed up your retool but I do wonder how much value you got back in the end (also I'm happy for you regarding the Hughes / Kakko pick, nice)
    10-team Pts only, 19-man roster, 9F, 4D, 2G, 4bench 95M cap league
    F: T.Tompson Pasta Kaprizov Rantanen Gaudreau Necas Greig Zegras Vilardi
    D: Josi Bouchard Sandin Sanheim
    G Shesterkin Samsonov
    B: Woll Perfetti Poitras
    Farm: Guenther, Will Smith

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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    I think your 5 keepers are a slight downgrade from last years overall. Crosby/Barkov vs. Point/Hall. The primary goal in a keep 5 is to have as many of your 5 in the top 10 fantasy players as possible. high end talent gives you a solid advantage year over year.

    Your prospects have improved. And J. Hughes will give you that elite bump to your 5 keepers in due time.

    It's clear that you, and your league are active in trades. So likely you'll bee able to go after that elite talent next year.

    Pretty close to a wash in terms of keeper value overall, but prospects, I like better this vs. last yer
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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Crosby - Point
    Benn - Hall
    Ghost - Klingberg
    Tkachuk - Tkachuk
    Barkov - Dubois
    Keller - Stone
    Montour - Q. Hughes


    The rest:

    F. Anderson, Pulock and Gourde
    for
    Gusev, T. Terry, and Kaprizov


    I know you didn't necessarily trade the players I matched up one-for-one, but for comparison purposes I marked in bold the players I'd prefer when looking at your roster before and after.

    A very nice upgrade/improvement, I feel. The only miss-step was the Barkov deal, but you can't win them all. Overall, I think your team is much improved.

    Losing a top tier goalie like Andersen would normally really hurt, but I will take your word that you can adequately replace him in the draft (or however you plan to do so).
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    Crosby - Point
    Benn - Hall
    Ghost - Klingberg
    Tkachuk - Tkachuk
    Barkov - Dubois
    Keller - Stone
    Montour - Q. Hughes


    The rest:

    F. Anderson, Pulock and Gourde
    for
    Gusev, T. Terry, and Kaprizov


    I know you didn't necessarily trade the players I matched up one-for-one, but for comparison purposes I marked in bold the players I'd prefer when looking at your roster before and after.

    A very nice upgrade/improvement, I feel. The only miss-step was the Barkov deal, but you can't win them all. Overall, I think your team is much improved.

    Losing a top tier goalie like Andersen would normally really hurt, but I will take your word that you can adequately replace him in the draft (or however you plan to do so).
    Not sure you can compare Keller - who was a prospect to Stone a keeper and then exclude F. AndersEn completely from the comparison. Top 5 fantasy goalie in this type of league, which gives 0.2 pts per save
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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    Not sure you can compare Keller - who was a prospect to Stone a keeper and then exclude F. AndersEn completely from the comparison. Top 5 fantasy goalie in this type of league, which gives 0.2 pts per save
    yeah, I realize it is not as simple as I made it out, but on the surface the team is stronger. I'd prefer Point over Crosby, Hall over Benn, Stone over Keller, etc.

    Losing Barkov and Andersen hurts, but overall I think this team has improved.

    In any significant rebuild like this one, mistakes will be made, but as long as in the end the team in general is stronger, I think the owner must be satisfied.

    I mean, to put it very simply, if this were a trade, I'd want Side B.

    Side A receives:
    Crosby, Benn, Gostisbehere, Barkov, Keller, Montour, Pulock, Gourde, Andersen

    Side B receives:
    Point, Hall, Klingberg, Dubois, Stone, Q. Hughes, Gusev, Terry, Kaprisov

    I admit that Andersen perplexes me, because I feel he is a top 3 goalie to own in fantasy hockey, but the OP seems to feel that replacing his value won't be a challenge. Perhaps in this league goalies have less value than most other leagues for some unknown reason.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post

    I admit that Andersen perplexes me, because I feel he is a top 3 goalie to own in fantasy hockey, but the OP seems to feel that replacing his value won't be a challenge. Perhaps in this league goalies have less value than most other leagues for some unknown reason.
    I think what it probably is, is that the drop off is much less from a guy like Anderson to a lower tier guy like Lundqvist, Quick, or Howard, just because the stats are volume based and they all see volume.
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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    I understand the issue with Andersen and Barkov. Literally days after i traded Barkov he went on a huge tear and his value skyrocketed. It sucked but I got PLD (still a rookie keeper) and picks out of the deal. The situation with Andersen is that I've kept him the past few years, and he's always reliable but underwhelming. And NOBODY keeps goalies in our league. Vasilevski will be the only goalie keeper this year. In a keep 5, I don't think its the best use of a keeper spot to keep Andersen even if he is a top 3-5 goalie. I plan to draft a goalie with my extra picks that I recouped. Even in the 5th Rd there are Jones and Dubnyk type goalies still sitting there, so I'd rather prioritize wingers and Dmen first and find value in net later in the draft. It's a new strategy for me but goalies are just too fickle for my liking. For example, I traded Andersen to the top seed and reigning champ this year and the 2nd round of our playoffs was the week where Andersen got pulled in 3 straight games, so he absolutley lost the week for the other GM.
    Weekly matchup, 10-teams, 25 man roster, play 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 4D, 2G per night
    Multi-cat league: G (4), A (2.5), SOG (0.2), HIT (0.2), BLKS (0.2), PPP, GWG, PIMS (0.2), +/- (+/-0.5) - skaters
    W (3), S/O (5), each save (0.2), each GA (-1)

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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    yeah, I realize it is not as simple as I made it out, but on the surface the team is stronger. I'd prefer Point over Crosby, Hall over Benn, Stone over Keller, etc.

    Losing Barkov and Andersen hurts, but overall I think this team has improved.

    In any significant rebuild like this one, mistakes will be made, but as long as in the end the team in general is stronger, I think the owner must be satisfied.

    I mean, to put it very simply, if this were a trade, I'd want Side B.

    Side A receives:
    Crosby, Benn, Gostisbehere, Barkov, Keller, Montour, Pulock, Gourde, Andersen

    Side B receives:
    Point, Hall, Klingberg, Dubois, Stone, Q. Hughes, Gusev, Terry, Kaprisov

    I admit that Andersen perplexes me, because I feel he is a top 3 goalie to own in fantasy hockey, but the OP seems to feel that replacing his value won't be a challenge. Perhaps in this league goalies have less value than most other leagues for some unknown reason.
    In this type of league I'd bet Sid was at a min .5 fpt/gm better than Point. No way I'm putting Point over Sid yet. Sid also had a better season 18/19
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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hitchhiker View Post
    I understand the issue with Andersen and Barkov. Literally days after i traded Barkov he went on a huge tear and his value skyrocketed. It sucked but I got PLD (still a rookie keeper) and picks out of the deal. The situation with Andersen is that I've kept him the past few years, and he's always reliable but underwhelming. And NOBODY keeps goalies in our league. Vasilevski will be the only goalie keeper this year. In a keep 5, I don't think its the best use of a keeper spot to keep Andersen even if he is a top 3-5 goalie. I plan to draft a goalie with my extra picks that I recouped. Even in the 5th Rd there are Jones and Dubnyk type goalies still sitting there, so I'd rather prioritize wingers and Dmen first and find value in net later in the draft. It's a new strategy for me but goalies are just too fickle for my liking. For example, I traded Andersen to the top seed and reigning champ this year and the 2nd round of our playoffs was the week where Andersen got pulled in 3 straight games, so he absolutley lost the week for the other GM.
    Sounds like you know what you are doing. I mean, if not protecting a goalie like Andersen means you can protect an extra skater, and then grab a goalie comparable to Andersen late in the draft, then I'd likely do that also. Each league is different.

    It sounds like you've made peace with the Barkov deal, and I don't blame you for that. Barkov really went on fire to end the season, and I'm not sure many predicted that. Also, Dubois conversely had a really strong start to the season, if I recall correctly, and was looking like a budding power forward capable of 70 points (which in all honesty was the most Barkov had achieved in his career up to the point you traded him). Also, if you got some picks out of the deal, AND can protect Dubois on your rookie list, then the deal isn't all bad, even in hindsight. I mean, in a sense the deal allowed you to keep Dubois and one of your veteran keepers (e.g, Stone), plus draft picks, instead of just Barkov.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    In this type of league I'd bet Sid was at a min .5 fpt/gm better than Point. No way I'm putting Point over Sid yet. Sid also had a better season 18/19
    You may be right...I haven't run the numbers. My personal bias towards Point may be at play here. However, I'm also of the belief that at some point aging star players like Crosby need to be off-loaded before they lose too much value. I'm not saying Crosby is going to disappear anytime soon, but there is a tipping point for players over 30. Point is 8 years younger than Crosby, and like it or not, age is a factor in keeper leagues. Crosby is still one of the best players in the world, but even he will eventually start to slow down. The challenge is predicting when that will happen, and off-loading him before it is too late.

    Anyway, I don't think the OP traded Point straight up for Crosby. I simply listed the two together (somewhat randomly) and indicated that I'd personally want Point over Crosby.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post

    Anyway, I don't think the OP traded Point straight up for Crosby. I simply listed the two together (somewhat randomly) and indicated that I'd personally want Point over Crosby.
    I traded Crosby for Point and Stone. The age factor played a big role. Sid is still elite but I'm not sure for how many more years. Meanwhile, Point is 8 years younger and their NHL and fantasy points were comparable (Point - 390 fantasy points; 4.9 pts/game and Crosby - 410 fantasy points; 5.2 pts/game). I don't know if this is Point's anticipated production going forward or if his shooting % was high and piggy-backed Kucherov's monster year. However, Point is only 23 years old, has been a scorer his whole hockey playing career but was overlooked for whatever reason (similar to Kuch) and is going into his 4th (magical breakout? or did that just happen?) year in a prime spot on the stacked TBay club. Crosby is still elite, but for how long? Both guys have question marks, but I chose Point because he could have another gear and untapped ceiling yet to hit still. Most of the moves (Hall, Point, Gusev, Stone, etc.) are swing for the fences moves, hoping for big things, rather than stick with the status-quo which wasn't getting me as far as I wanted.
    Weekly matchup, 10-teams, 25 man roster, play 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 4D, 2G per night
    Multi-cat league: G (4), A (2.5), SOG (0.2), HIT (0.2), BLKS (0.2), PPP, GWG, PIMS (0.2), +/- (+/-0.5) - skaters
    W (3), S/O (5), each save (0.2), each GA (-1)

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    Default Re: A complete blow-up - have i improved?

    Well, you don't really need to hear more from me, but I like it.

    I don't know what will happen next year, but at 31 years old, I don't know how many more 100 pt seasons Crosby has left in him. At 23, I doubt Point just had his career year. It is possible, but most players don't hit their peak until their mid-to-late 20s.

    I don't mind what you are doing in "swinging for the fences" like you say. It makes it fun to take some chances sometimes, and truthfully getting Stone in addition to Point for Crosby isn't really much of a gamble.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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