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Thread: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

  1. #136
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    The Cup window has been open for 2 years and the Leafs aren't strong enough or deep enough to be a real contender. The Leafs are about to have to shed pieces just to keep the current core, which has not shown to be good enough, together.
    I mean, they took the Bruins to 7 games this year. Sure it's another first round exit, but the Bruins are now playing a pretty entertaining well-contested Cup final. And they handily won rounds 2 and 3. It's kinda like saying the Caps (losing to the Cup winning Pens in both 2016 & 2017) were never going to be good enough with their core to win a Cup. That was one of the dominant narratives at the time. And then 2018 happens.

    I'm not saying plan the 2020 parade, but to say that the Leafs aren't serious contenders misses the mark. They're not favorites, and we'll see how the roster shakes out next year, but imo they continue to be in the group of serious Cup contenders.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    I mean, they took the Bruins to 7 games this year. Sure it's another first round exit, but the Bruins are now playing a pretty entertaining well-contested Cup final. And they handily won rounds 2 and 3. It's kinda like saying the Caps (losing to the Cup winning Pens in both 2016 & 2017) were never going to be good enough with their core to win a Cup. That was one of the dominant narratives at the time. And then 2018 happens.

    I'm not saying plan the 2020 parade, but to say that the Leafs aren't serious contenders misses the mark. They're not favorites, and we'll see how the roster shakes out next year, but imo they continue to be in the group of serious Cup contenders.
    I completely agree. I'm not a Leafs fan, but I think they are a legitimate Cup contender with their current roster. They played well against Boston, and if a few bounces had gone their way, they would have won that series. If they had gotten by Boston, it is certainly plausible that they'd advance to the Cup final.

    Toronto certainly isn't a Cup favorite going into next season, but I'd say their chances are just as good as most teams. Truthfully, beyond Tampa (and look how that turned out), it is hard to say any team is a Cup favorite. I guess the odds-makers will probably have Tampa as #1, perhaps Boston and St. Louis as #2 and #3 in some order (but it is extremely hard to get to the Cup final two years in a row). After that, you'd probably be looking at teams like Pittsburgh, Washington, Nashville, Calgary, Toronto, etc. Outside of Boston and St. Louis, all those teams were eliminated early, yet are likely still considered Cup contenders.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    You look at the make up of the last few finals

    Bos-Stl
    Wsh-Veg
    Pitt-Nsh
    Pitt-SJ
    Chi -TB
    LA-NYR

    There's grit up and down every F-line, every Dpair.

    Players that can adjust to playoff hockey - Kapanen, Johnsson, Tavares, Marner - do well.

    Nylander... not so much.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    You look at the make up of the last few finals

    Bos-Stl
    Wsh-Veg
    Pitt-Nsh
    Pitt-SJ
    Chi -TB
    LA-NYR

    There's grit up and down every F-line, every Dpair.
    Is this Marc Bergevin?
    Grit is BS. What cup winner in the last 5 years has had a “grit” identity? Skill wins cups. Yes I’m the playoffs things tighten up, but the real playoff success goes to guys that can play well (skill) under playoff conditions.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Quote Originally Posted by tweetdrivr View Post
    Is this Marc Bergevin?
    Grit is BS. What cup winner in the last 5 years has had a “grit” identity? Skill wins cups. Yes I’m the playoffs things tighten up, but the real playoff success goes to guys that can play well (skill) under playoff conditions.
    They have the ability to do both... and not shy away from 'playoff' hockey. Nylander does. And visibly so. I mean stopping on a dime to make 180 degree turns away from contact. Can't give up on a puck battle before even engaging in one.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    It’s gojng to turn out to be a huge mistake that they didn’t trade him (Nylander) to Carolina for one of their D men while his value was higher. While I agree Nylander is soft you don’t need gritty players. You need guys that play the game hard and we’ll. Stamkos, Wheeler, Mathews, McDavid...they don’t shy away from contact but they are not “gritty” players...just really good solid hockey players. I also like players like Ovechkin and Wilson. Wilson is no doubt considered gritty and ever dirty but he can also play the game at a very high level and skate in today’s NHL. There are very few players like these days.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Grit doesn't win Cups. Strong defensive play and excellent special teams is what wins Cups.


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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Both Penguins cup teams had close to zero “grit”. They had a shit ton of speed and skill. As soon as they got rid of speed for “grit” look what has happened lol.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    Grit doesn't win Cups. Strong defensive play and excellent special teams is what wins Cups.
    This is my opinion also. Having a bit of sandpaper in the lineup sure helps (St. Louis plays a heavy game and Marchand/Chara/McAvoy can play that irritatingly-frustrating in-your-face style of hockey), but the games are generally so closely-contested that the difference often comes down to special teams. If you can play solid defense, including penalty killing, and score consistently on the power play, you are likely to go on a deep playoff run.

    Of course there is no simple formula to building a winning team, but I think it all starts with defense and special teams.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    It appears our definitions of grit might be skewed. Everyone seems to separate skill players from Gritty players. Whereas, my point was more that the skill players in the finals all have or find a bit of a gritty edge to their game come playoffs. I never said special teams or defensive play doesn't matter. Nor did I say 'grit' was the only thing that creates a winning team.

    Say you subbed Nylander for Gallagher (Mtl) - that could have been enough to make a difference in the series... or just having Kadri in the line up.

    Regardless, with all the rumours of a bidding war opening up on Zaitsev - those words are out there - (Right hand shot Dman - who's portrayed in the media as miscast in his role by Babcock) and Marleau requesting a trade out West ...
    there's Marner's 10.5m right there.

    I know it'll never happen, but with 30m in cap space and Marleau having 1 year left on his deal - Vancouver could make a big splash. Offer to take BOTH Marleau & Zaitsev - maybe off load Beagle in the process and get a real tasty prospect or player back.

    Dubas would pay handsomely to offload both in one go.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Rumours of an offer sheet ARE getting louder.

    12.5m per is the latest. and it's coming out of Long Island. If so... zebra's really can change their stripes

    Hate to say it.. but with 12m in newfound cap space & 2 1sts in each of the next 4 drafts... Leafs would be able to fill out most of the holes on this team
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    Rumours of an offer sheet ARE getting louder.

    12.5m per is the latest. and it's coming out of Long Island. If so... zebra's really can change their stripes

    Hate to say it.. but with 12m in newfound cap space & 2 1sts in each of the next 4 drafts... Leafs would be able to fill out most of the holes on this team
    Agreed. Hate to see him go but the alternative could be just as good if not better long term for this team. Thank God they have the depth they do.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Itís become an extremely difficult situation to read as a fan. Too much noise from media, agent and fans but no official statement from Mitchell himself. All Leafs fans can do is sit tight at let it play out. I donít know what to believe anymore.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    Quote Originally Posted by DusterDave View Post
    It’s become an extremely difficult situation to read as a fan. Too much noise from media, agent and fans but no official statement from Mitchell himself. All Leafs fans can do is sit tight at let it play out. I don’t know what to believe anymore.
    All I care about is “Don't screw this up Dubas”. However it plays out, don’t screw this up.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Marner is gone from TO

    This reminds me of the Karlsson situation a bit. Different scenario but the talks and speculation have been purely media driven so much that it cant not happen without somebody being called a failure.
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    From this day fwd i will try to correct teh spelling of the word 'teh'

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