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Thread: Mueller report

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Based on this thread, one would think impeachment is just around the corner.
    Is it ?


    And, if not... why not?
    Tough to say if it will actually happen because it's mostly a political question.

    The House could impeach, and it would likely succeed. However, once it got to the Senate, where they need 2/3 to pass, and in a Republican controlled Senate that's nearly impossible. So it seems like the Democrats need to weigh whether it's worth even starting that process, knowing that it would likely be pointless long term, and they would want to weigh the value of such an action politically.

  2. #47
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    2/3 from the Senate should be obtainable if Trump truly did anything worthy of impeachment.
    I think it would be political suicide to back a President who is unfit for office.

    So the fact that the Dems won't even try to impeach suggests very clearly that the report contains nothing worthy of impeachment.

    Therefore, I would humbly suggest that the left needs to swallow their sour grapes already. It's time to move on for the sake of their country.
    But instead of doing that, it looks like they would rather double down on false accusations and ride them all the way to the 2020 election.
    It will be interesting to see how that goes.
    They do have a lot of powerful & corrupt people/businesses on their side (e.g. Facebook and Twitter) but it seems like they might once again be underestimating the same people who elected Trump in the first place.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    2/3 from the Senate should be obtainable if Trump truly did anything worthy of impeachment.
    I think it would be political suicide to back a President who is unfit for office.

    So the fact that the Dems won't even try to impeach suggests very clearly that the report contains nothing worthy of impeachment.

    Therefore, I would humbly suggest that the left needs to swallow their sour grapes already. It's time to move on for the sake of their country.
    But instead of doing that, it looks like they would rather double down on false accusations and ride them all the way to the 2020 election.
    It will be interesting to see how that goes.
    They do have a lot of powerful & corrupt people/businesses on their side (e.g. Facebook and Twitter) but it seems like they might once again be underestimating the same people who elected Trump in the first place.
    This interpretation of the situation is really interesting to me .I couldn't disagree more with it. Backing this President, regardless of what he does or what he says, is exactly what the Republican base wants. Impeaching Trump would likely be a disaster for those representing red states.

    Just as you believe those on the left need to get over it and just let Trump do his thing, those on the left cannot understand how those on the right can let Trump continue to stay in power when it's clear (to them) he's utterly unfit for the position he holds. The left is not going to 'swallow their sour grapes' when they believe that they are watching the dismantling of their nation at the hands of a completely incompetent (at best) and/or completely corrupt (at worst) individual, supported by a Republican party that seem intent on supporting him through it all.

    I really don't know how all of this will end (though I suspect Trump will remain President and run again in 2020 where it remains to be seen what will happen yet again), but I don't see this massive rift in the USA being resolved any time soon. Both sides are convinced of their utter rightness. As someone who would be classified as 'on the left' (which is interesting since I have voted Conservative in every federal election but one in my lifetime - when I have voted at least), I struggle with trying to understand the support for Donald Trump, except to see that he is incredibly useful for the Republican party's (and those who support them) goals.

  4. #49
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    Default Re: Mueller report

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    2/3 from the Senate should be obtainable if Trump truly did anything worthy of impeachment.
    I think it would be political suicide to back a President who is unfit for office.

    So the fact that the Dems won't even try to impeach suggests very clearly that the report contains nothing worthy of impeachment.

    Therefore, I would humbly suggest that the left needs to swallow their sour grapes already. It's time to move on for the sake of their country.
    But instead of doing that, it looks like they would rather double down on false accusations and ride them all the way to the 2020 election.
    It will be interesting to see how that goes.
    They do have a lot of powerful & corrupt people/businesses on their side (e.g. Facebook and Twitter) but it seems like they might once again be underestimating the same people who elected Trump in the first place.
    It's cute how uncorrupt and unbroken you think the American political system is.

  5. #50
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    Default Re: Mueller report

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    2/3 from the Senate should be obtainable if Trump truly did anything worthy of impeachment.
    I think it would be political suicide to back a President who is unfit for office.

    So the fact that the Dems won't even try to impeach suggests very clearly that the report contains nothing worthy of impeachment.

    Therefore, I would humbly suggest that the left needs to swallow their sour grapes already. It's time to move on for the sake of their country.
    But instead of doing that, it looks like they would rather double down on false accusations and ride them all the way to the 2020 election.
    It will be interesting to see how that goes.
    They do have a lot of powerful & corrupt people/businesses on their side (e.g. Facebook and Twitter) but it seems like they might once again be underestimating the same people who elected Trump in the first place.
    There are many who feel strongly that Trump IS unfit for the office of the presidency. Trump supporters defend him at all costs, no matter what he does or says. Your statement of "it would be political suicide to back a President who is unfit for office" couldn't be further from the truth. Sadly, some Dems are just as bad on the other side, looking for any reason to attack and undermine his Presidency. To me, he is hands down the worst President of my lifetime. He is wildly dishonest, misogynistic, racist, anti gay, pro big pharma, all about money and one of the most childish leaders in history. To me, he is clearly unfit to be President.

    Rylant

  6. #51
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    Default Re: Mueller report

    “Country over party” died years ago.

  7. #52
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    He's a little rough around the edges. That much is obvious.
    So I can understand why people might mistakenly think he's racist or whatever.

    But his legacy will be putting Americans back to work.
    And growing their economy.
    And protecting them.

    Meanwhile, Democrats want to protect the rights of drug dealers and human traffickers while calling Republicans immoral.
    And they spend their time writing important documents about farting cows.
    And how the world is ending in 10-12 years.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    But his legacy will be putting Americans back to work.
    And growing their economy.
    And protecting them.
    Man. Imagine thinking he’s done even a modicum of this. The wool is thick.

  9. #54
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    It's the economy, stupid.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    He's a little rough around the edges. That much is obvious.
    So I can understand why people might mistakenly think he's racist or whatever.

    But his legacy will be putting Americans back to work.
    And growing their economy.
    And protecting them.

    Meanwhile, Democrats want to protect the rights of drug dealers and human traffickers while calling Republicans immoral.
    And they spend their time writing important documents about farting cows.
    And how the world is ending in 10-12 years.
    See, you lose me on a lot of this. Rough around the edges comes across as a pretty gross understatement of the character of Donald Trump for many of us. He's blown way past that as far as I am concerned.

    As to his legacy, that remains to be seen, but I suspect it will a far different one than you mention, but of course that will depend on which side is remembering it.

    But your last paragraph seems to reveal the real concerns I have. They scream of Fox News brain rot talking points (which may be a coincidence as I don't know if you even watch Fox News!) and hopefully you don't honestly believe that most of those you disagree with actually believe those things. I know of few who honestly think the world is going to end from climate change within a decade, that the rights of human traffickers should be supported, or that most of their time is best spent writing articles on farting cows. I know many who are rightly concerned about the long term effects of climate change (of which the scientific community is nearly unanimous on) and have grave concerns about the treatment of people at the border.

  11. #56
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    I suggest everyone read this: https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-tex...tive-summaries Its the executive summary that Mueller wrote and expected to be released when he submitted the full report. He did not expect Barr to hold it back and essentially contradict the findings of the investigation. I think it speaks for itself. If you can't spend 30 minutes reading it,dont even bother commenting as you dont really care about the substance of the Mueller report.

    sandwooder posted this on Reddit:
    Key details • Less than 48 hours after receiving Mueller's 448-page report, Barr released a summary exonerating Trump on collusion and saying there was "insufficient evidence" of obstruction.
    • Barr, under oath before Congress, admits that neither he nor Rosenstein reviewed the underlying evidence of obstruction before deciding there was not enough evidence.
    • Mueller contacted Barr three times in the four days following Barr's summary, memorializing two of those communications in written form. The level of urgency indicates this is not a minor disagreement.
    • Barr, under oath before Congress, twice denied knowing Mueller's thinking on the subject.
    Timeline

    March 22, 2019, mid-day Mueller’s 448-page report is delivered to Barr's office .
    March 24 (less than 48 hours later) Barr releases a four-page summary exonerating Trump. Barr's summary says Mueller found no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. And while Mueller didn’t absolve Trump of an obstruction of justice charge, Barr quickly did.
    March 24 Trump tweets, "No Collusion, No Obstruction, Complete and Total EXONERATION. KEEP AMERICA GREAT!"
    March 25 (one day after Barr's summary) Mueller sends a letter (its full contents have not been made public) to Barr to say he and his team believed Barr had not adequately portrayed their conclusions. Pointedly, he attached the report’s executive summaries as a reminder that his investigators had already done the work of distilling their findings. (This letter is directly mentioned in the public letter of March 27th)
    March 27 (three days after Barr's summary) Mueller sends a second letter to Barr to say, “the summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this Office’s work and conclusions. There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel; to assure public confidence in the outcome of the investigations.”
    March 28 (four days after Barr's summary) Barr and Mueller speak by phone. In his May 1 testimony before Congress, Barr says he asked Muller “if he was suggesting that the March 24 [summary] was inaccurate, and he said, no, but that the press reporting had been inaccurate." Note: Mueller makes NO mention of the press reporting or of media at all in his March 27 letter. Barr testified he has notes of his phone conversation with Mueller, but told Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., that he would not provide those notes to the panel. “Why should you have them?” Barr asked.
    April 9 and 10 In back-to-back congressional hearings, Barr disclaimed knowledge of Mueller's thinking. “No, I don’t,” Barr said, when asked by Rep. Charlie Crist (D-Fla.) whether he knew what was behind reports that members of Mueller’s team were frustrated by the attorney general’s summary of their top-level conclusions. “I don’t know,” he said the next day, when asked by Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) whether Mueller supported his finding that there was not sufficient evidence to conclude that President Trump had obstructed justice.
    April 18 White House waives executive privilege of the report in the "interest of transparency."
    April 19 Trump tweets, "Statements are made about me by certain people in the Crazy Mueller Report, in itself written by 18 Angry Democrat Trump Haters, which are fabricated & totally untrue. Watch out for people that take so-called “notes,” when the notes never existed until needed. Because I never agreed to testify, it was not necessary for me to respond to statements made in the “Report” about me, some of which are total bullshit & only given to make the other person look good (or me to look bad). This was an Illegally Started Hoax that never should have happened....
    May 1 Barr, in his testimony to Congress, admits he did not review the underlying evidence in Mueller's report before deciding that the evidence did not reach the threshold to charge Trump with obstruction. Nor did Rosenstein.
    May 8 Trump claims Executive Privilege over the Mueller report. (See April 18 for opposite statement by Trump)

  12. #57
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    Maybe too loosely related for this thread, but, if you have a moment for a good laugh, google "Family Guy Hannity" to see the clip from the other night - if it's funny to me, I have to think it will be hilarious to anyone on the left.

  13. #58
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    Mueller: “If we had had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.”

    Rylant

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Mueller: “If we had had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.”

    Rylant
    Barr is the one that should be impeached not to mention the POtuS.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Mueller: “If we had had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.”

    Rylant
    As obvious as it can be, but it won't make a difference.

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