Carter Hart called up to Flyers

[Hendu]

Hope the kid does well, but there is a reason that only 2 goalies in the last 30 years have started an NHL game this young. And it's not like he's going to a defensively solid, stable team. It's a team in turmoil playing crappy defense.

[PenguinHunter]

Hope the kid does well, but there is a reason that only 2 goalies in the last 30 years have started an NHL game this young. And it's not like he's going to a defensively solid, stable team. It's a team in turmoil playing crappy defense.

Are they playing crappy defense??

I am not big on advanced stats... but they are second lowest team for SAT against at 1345. Ottawa is the highest at 1931. Not sure how to read the stat... but these are two of the worst 3 teams in goals against. It seems kinda weird that one team is at the top of the SAT against list and one is 2nd from the bottom. So you tell me if it is crappy D, or crappy goaltending in each of Ottawa and Philly.

Flyers are also top 10 in allowing the least number of shots. I usually equate brutal defense to allowing a lot of shots and a lot of scoring chances... but I am old school in a lot of things... maybe this is one of them.

[ericdaoust]

Both quantity and quality matter. Shots against and shot attempts against matter but the quality of the chances matters too.

The Canadiens are a good example. They've done well in shot differential, due to their speed and puck movement. But when they're pinned in their own end and forced to defend they break down quickly. I'd refer to them as a good "Corsi" team, not a good defensive team. ie they limit the quantity, but not the quality

[PenguinHunter]

Both quantity and quality matter. Shots against and shot attempts against matter but the quality of the chances matters too.

The Canadiens are a good example. They've done well in shot differential, due to their speed and puck movement. But when they're pinned in their own end and forced to defend they break down quickly. I'd refer to them as a good "Corsi" team, not a good defensive team. ie they limit the quantity, but not the quality

I agree, shot attempts and shot quality do matter. But the Flyers are supposedly 3rd best in High Danger chances against. So that would mean they aren't giving up great quality either?

This is a website I have heard mentioned in a few articles here and there. Not sure how legit it is. But it gives me hope that my Flyers are not as bad as their goalies are making them seem.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php - Check out the Scoring Chances Against, and some of the High Danger Scoring Chance stats. And like I disclaimed earlier, I don't know how legit this site is...

[ericdaoust]

I agree, shot attempts and shot quality do matter. But the Flyers are supposedly 3rd best in High Danger chances against. So that would mean they aren't giving up great quality either?

This is a website I have heard mentioned in a few articles here and there. Not sure how legit it is. But it gives me hope that my Flyers are not as bad as their goalies are making them seem.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php - Check out the Scoring Chances Against, and some of the High Danger Scoring Chance stats. And like I disclaimed earlier, I don't know how legit this site is...

I assume the numbers are legit, but what does "high danger" really mean when all high danger chances are lumped into one category? I would say that doesn't reflect reality. There's different degrees of high danger chances.

Regarding the Flyers: what do you guys see during games? Are they defending well? The quantity speaks for itself (ie shot attempts) and the quality part seems to be good. Does that reflect what is happening on the ice?

Back to my example: I see the Canadiens rank decent when it comes to high danger chances against. But what I see on the ice is the team running around when forced to defend and they are prone to leaving guys wide open in front of the net. That makes for a VERY difficult save. I would classify that as "very very very high danger chance" which isn't specified as a category on that website.

[Hendu]

I agree, shot attempts and shot quality do matter. But the Flyers are supposedly 3rd best in High Danger chances against. So that would mean they aren't giving up great quality either?

This is a website I have heard mentioned in a few articles here and there. Not sure how legit it is. But it gives me hope that my Flyers are not as bad as their goalies are making them seem.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php - Check out the Scoring Chances Against, and some of the High Danger Scoring Chance stats. And like I disclaimed earlier, I don't know how legit this site is...

A couple of things. First, "shitty" may have been an exaggeration. There PK is bad. Is that the goalie or the defense? Probably both. Even if the defense is "average" I do not believe that putting a 20 year old goalie with average AHL stats into that line-up will help his development at all. In fact, I think it hurts him. Also, please reference my signature on how I view the use of statistics.

[ericdaoust]

Well turns out they didn't completely ruin his life yet. Hart picked up the win tonight.

[lektrix]

Playing Detroit will boost anyone's confidence.....

[PenguinHunter]

Regarding the Flyers: what do you guys see during games? Are they defending well? The quantity speaks for itself (ie shot attempts) and the quality part seems to be good. Does that reflect what is happening on the ice?

I don't watch very often... but I listen. And what I have been hearing... is the Flyers coming out strong in most games and controlling the play. And then usually one of 2 things happens. The goalie lets in a weak goal (and how I determine it is weak by listening to the radio is that the announcers explain it as being one the goalie should have had, and there isn't that build-up before the goal where the announcer gets excite..it just comes out of nowhere) or the Flyers take a penalty and give up a PP goal.
This is consistent with the game that I did see in Winnipeg. The Flyers came out flying and were all over the Jets the whole first period. Neuvirth let in two weak goals and then another one early in the second. The Flyers get deflated by this and start taking penalties and then start giving up more goals.

When I was listening to last night's game against Detroit. The announcers kept talking about how well the Flyers were protecting the kid in net. And then they started discussing how Hart has only touched the puck once in the first half period or so (1 shot against) and how he must still have butterflies because he hasn't really got into the game. So I would say they were playing good D (even though they were playing against Detroit). Then the Flyers took a penalty.... and on that PK, instead of the Flyers giving up a goal... it sounded like Hart made some big saves on the PK and at the point where the Flyers usually start deflating, instead they got the routine saves and a big save and were able to get out of the first period up 1-0. And then in the second they came out and played well again. In total, they only gave up 22 shots and they were leading most of the game, so you would think Detroit would be in a shoot-first mentality if they were trailing.

Just my two cents, and like I said I have only watched the one game, but listened to a few more than that in the last couple weeks.

[Pengwin7]

Not a great first tell on Hart.
I watched the game last night (broadcast as part of ESPN+ schedule).

The Wings offense was dismal. They created almost no high-danger opportunities. ("Almost no" = a couple)
If somebody had a "Goalie Shot Difficulty Score" for games, this would've been maybe a 17/100 for Detroit's shot-quality/effort.

I actually thought Hart looked a little shaky on several 1st period shots crossing his crease (and not even registered SOG).
But... that's fine, everybody's allowed nerves in first period of first NHL game.

Still a goalie has to save the pucks that should be saved... and Hart did that.
(But - I also think 8/10 AHL goalies could've won that game for the Flyers last night.)


FWIW - I do think that start (vs. weak DET offense) was a smart first opportunity for Hart. So kudos to new GM Fletcher on that timing.

[PenguinHunter]

Still a goalie has to save the pucks that should be saved... and Hart did that.
(But - I also think 8/10 AHL goalies could've won that game for the Flyers last night.)

Could any of the other Flyers goalies won that game for the Flyers last night? That's the bigger question?

[Pengwin7]

Could any of the other Flyers goalies won that game for the Flyers last night? That's the bigger question?

All of them, yes.
It really wasn't a tough game.
PHI is (& was) a better team (last night) than DET.

ps. I got a win in PQMC with Hart last night. 3gp, 3w to start my H2H week against the commish!!!

[Eskimo Brother]

The comment I might have on if other Flyers goalies could have won the game, is that they could have won a lot of games if the team in front of them played that well. I think it took having Hart called up to bring out some real team effort in them. Sometimes teams just play a stronger, more sound game in front of a perceived shakier goalie that they want to get a win for. If having Hart is what it takes, then great.

[als_revenge]

The comment I might have on if other Flyers goalies could have won the game, is that they could have won a lot of games if the team in front of them played that well. I think it took having Hart called up to bring out some real team effort in them. Sometimes teams just play a stronger, more sound game in front of a perceived shakier goalie that they want to get a win for. If having Hart is what it takes, then great.

It's possible the team will play like that with Elliot too; all the other goalies should not be starting games...

[PenguinHunter]

All of them, yes.
It really wasn't a tough game.
PHI is (& was) a better team (last night) than DET.

ps. I got a win in PQMC with Hart last night. 3gp, 3w to start my H2H week against the commish!!!

Like mentioned earlier, I don't get to watch many games. Just listen. Would you say that Philly play significantly better then the previous 5 games? I just feel like from listening (and watching the one game in Winnipeg) that the Flyers goalies had been letting in multiple weak goals every game. That is why I asked if the other goalies could have won the game too.

From what I 'hear' the team is not playing as bad as many people think, and that they start off playing really well and then deflate when their goalie lets in the 2nd weak goal of the period. Which is exactly what i witnessed in Winnipeg.

PS - Congrats on our lead!