Controversial trade opinions please

[Bmac24]

I?m part of an established keeper pool. We?ve had some lopsided trades before, but this is on another level IMHO. We just had a new manager join the pool and he?s made the following trade with a more established member of the pool. I don?t believe any collusion has taken place, but just an inexperienced manager trading and not unstanding the value of his players. The new manager is also a huge Ottawa homer so that may explain part of the trade. I?ve been kinda angry since the trade has gone down and feel this has damaged the integrity of our league to an extent. I?m interested in your thoughts and feedback?

The trade:

Brent Burns, Phil Kessel and Sanheim

For

Thomas Chabot and Colin White (F)

Points only league, dman goals worth 2pts.

[Moses]

This thread reminded me of another: https://forums.dobbersports.com/showthread.php?226486

When you talk about VETOS the (general) collective response around here is going be (I think, anyway) that VETOS should only be allowed for 3 circumstances.

1) Collusion. Two GMs trying to make one good team.
2) A brand new GM in an established league makes a horrible early trade before understanding league.
3) A trade that is overall bad for the health of the league. A trade so egregious that it demands intervention.

^^ I guess there is going to be another set of responses about VETOS. The "Predatory Veto" in a league where trades are voted on to pass. I can't imagine being part of one of these leagues. They just sound and feel so ugly.

This looks like a classic #2

[stevegamer]

I agree with Moses that it looks like #2 from that list.

Did the Senators fan propose it?

[Bmac24]

I agree with Moses that it looks like #2 from that list.

Did the Senators fan propose it?

Yes he did!

[4T2]

Ouch, I've always been a hard "no collusion = no veto" believer but this is a pretty awful one. It's a clear case of a new manager who doesn't understand the league yet. Is the manager new to fantasy hockey altogether? It's a keeper league too? This will damage his team for years!

I would talk to the two managers involved and try to come to a resolution with them first. There's nothing wrong with letting a new owner make some bad trades but this is egregious and has the potential to damage the team and league for years to come.

[saucelife90]

Ouch, I've always been a hard "no collusion = no veto" believer but this is a pretty awful one. It's a clear case of a new manager who doesn't understand the league yet. Is the manager new to fantasy hockey altogether? It's a keeper league too? This will damage his team for years!

I would talk to the two managers involved and try to come to a resolution with them first. There's nothing wrong with letting a new owner make some bad trades but this is egregious and has the potential to damage the team and league for years to come.

I think this would have to be the case. Unless this owner is brand new to fantasy hockey, there's no way anyone is trading EITHER Burns or Kessel for Chabot & White. Add Sanheim with both, and this deal should be a unanimous veto by every owner in the league.

[SuperMario]

Ev joined your league?

[GSD]

Ouch, I've always been a hard "no collusion = no veto" believer but this is a pretty awful one. It's a clear case of a new manager who doesn't understand the league yet. Is the manager new to fantasy hockey altogether? It's a keeper league too? This will damage his team for years!

I would talk to the two managers involved and try to come to a resolution with them first. There's nothing wrong with letting a new owner make some bad trades but this is egregious and has the potential to damage the team and league for years to come.

I also do not like Vetos, but, for example for two years running in my big money baseball league one GM consistently gets great deals from another GM. One GM is always in top 3 other always in bottom 3. This takes both the fun and fairness out of it. In this case it can't stand. In my case we are looking for alternatives.

[Daydream Nation]

If the deal is grossly lopsided and throws off the balance in the league then it should be vetoed. Yes, I veto this deal.

[ross10019]

It's a really bad trade. My only question with everyone who is advocating veto, even though there is absolutely no evidence of collusion, is where do you draw the line between a meh trade, a bad trade, and a horrible trade, in terms of deciding when a veto should apply? That's the problem with having vetos occur in circumstances other than where there is collusion, you end up having lots of objections and potentially vetos and it can destroy leagues. That said, I can understand if guys are upset about this deal - in my own league, I have guys up my butt all the time because I do lots of trading with another GM buddy of mine who loves to trade (that said, half the time the trades they whine over end up working out in the other guys' favor one way or another).

[saucelife90]

It's a really bad trade. My only question with everyone who is advocating veto, even though there is absolutely no evidence of collusion, is where do you draw the line between a meh trade, a bad trade, and a horrible trade, in terms of deciding when a veto should apply? That's the problem with having vetos occur in circumstances other than where there is collusion, you end up having lots of objections and potentially vetos and it can destroy leagues. That said, I can understand if guys are upset about this deal - in my own league, I have guys up my butt all the time because I do lots of trading with another GM buddy of mine who loves to trade (that said, half the time the trades they whine over end up working out in the other guys' favor one way or another).

I think what 4T2 mentioned above is where you draw that line. When the trade would cripple a team for years to come, and completely change the outlook of the league.

[4T2]

It's a really bad trade. My only question with everyone who is advocating veto, even though there is absolutely no evidence of collusion, is where do you draw the line between a meh trade, a bad trade, and a horrible trade, in terms of deciding when a veto should apply? That's the problem with having vetos occur in circumstances other than where there is collusion, you end up having lots of objections and potentially vetos and it can destroy leagues. That said, I can understand if guys are upset about this deal - in my own league, I have guys up my butt all the time because I do lots of trading with another GM buddy of mine who loves to trade (that said, half the time the trades they whine over end up working out in the other guys' favor one way or another).

It's a blurry line for sure, but that's just life. Very few things are actually black and white, yet we always try to make them out to be.

I think in this situation, where it's a brand new manager being taken advantage of, that's where the line gets drawn. If it was a guy who had been in the league for a couple of years and he made this deal, I would have to let it stand even though it is horrendous.

[Kabonov]

COLLUSION for sure.

Brent Burns, Phil Kessel and Sanheim

For

Thomas Chabot and Colin White (F)

[Daydream Nation]

It's a really bad trade. My only question with everyone who is advocating veto, even though there is absolutely no evidence of collusion, is where do you draw the line between a meh trade, a bad trade, and a horrible trade, in terms of deciding when a veto should apply? That's the problem with having vetos occur in circumstances other than where there is collusion, you end up having lots of objections and potentially vetos and it can destroy leagues. That said, I can understand if guys are upset about this deal - in my own league, I have guys up my butt all the time because I do lots of trading with another GM buddy of mine who loves to trade (that said, half the time the trades they whine over end up working out in the other guys' favor one way or another).

It's like pornography. You know it when you see it. If you have to really question it, then it doesn't deserve a veto.

[DJ Rection]

Horrible trade, I would be angry too if this trade happen in my league.
Is the new guy Pierre Dorion?