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Thread: Benn for Boeser+?

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    Default Benn for Boeser+?

    Full details on my roster and league in my signature below.

    I've been offered Boeser + a 3rd for Benn.

    Obviously, for me, for this year, this is a huge NO. But I'm wondering what people think of Boeser long term, and whether or not it might be worth considering if he were to add (a lot of) pick value.

    Some additional league info/context:
    -- it's keep 6, so really, I don't like looking more than 2-3 year ahead, max. So a key issue is whether or not Boeser will be of keeper value at the end of this year. To me, a winger needs to put up 70+ points, with lots of goals and good peripherals, to be worthy of keeper consideration in this league.
    -- my team is pretty strong and should be competitive, but a lot will depend on how my goalies perform. I'm not ready to start selling yet, but this could be a move I make later in the season if my team falters. I went into the draft this year knowing that it was going to be a coin flip if I was a competitor this year, or a seller.
    -- I was shopping Benn in the offseason, along with Tarasenko, because I had some other high-value pieces I was happy to hold onto if I could (Trochek, Schenn, Carlsson -- I only managed to draft one of them back). Of all my keepers, Benn is the guy I do worry about having a steep decline in production, although just when that will happen is of course the issue.
    -- our league has a new rule: no trading of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in the off season. So now the only way to potentially scoop up additional high end picks is by trading in the season.
    -- so you have some sense of what picks are worth in our league, this year, players such as Rask, Marner, Rinne, Rakell, and Trochek went in round 1; Raanta, Carlson, Letang, Barkov, and Bishop in round 2; and Talbot, Dumba, M. Smith, OEL, E. Kane, and Krug in round 3
    -----------------

    LEAGUE: keeper -- 6 keepers per year, no farm; roto; 10 managers, 18-man rosters; 2 C, 2 LW, 2 RW, 4 D, 1 UTIL, 2 G, 5 Bench; limits of 99 games per skater position & 82 games per goalie position; daily roster moves; max 100 waiver wire transactions per year; scoring categories of G, A, +/-, HIT, PPP, SOG, DEF (points by d-men), W, GAA, SA%, and SV.

    ROSTER:

    C: Trocheck, Granlund (RW), Monahan
    LW: Benn*, Ovechkin* (RW), Hoffman
    RW: Kucherov*, Tarasenko*, Hornqvist
    D: Karlsson*, Ristolainen, Gardiner, Trouba, Jokiharju
    G:: Vasilevskiy*, Talbot, Elliott, Reimer

    * = 2018 keepers

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    Default Re: Benn for Boeser+?

    For 2-3 years out, Benn easy especially with those underwhelming names that were 3rd rounders.

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    Default Re: Benn for Boeser+?

    I like Boeser long term. Had a very good year last. Don'T think it was a fluke.
    HTH Daily League, 8 teams, (goals, ppp, +/-, assists, SOG, W, GAA, SV%) keepers in Bold.

    C (s3) Trocheck, Hischier, O'Reily
    LW (s3) Johnny Hockey, T Hall, Marchessault C, Ehlers, Meijer RW
    RW(s3) Wheeler, Tarasenko, Rakell LW, Atkinson
    Until(s1)
    D (s4) Ghost, Carlson, Yandle, Chabot

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    Default Re: Benn for Boeser+?

    Quote Originally Posted by GSD View Post
    I like Boeser long term. Had a very good year last. Don'T think it was a fluke.
    The trick with a limited keeper league (keep 6) is timing -- grabbing and holding onto a guy in the year he's about to break out. I drafted Karlsson in the 3rd round the first year he played a full season, dropped him, then re-drafted him in the 4th round the next year, and never looked back thereafter. I drafted Vasilevskiy in the 3rd round the year Bishop was in his last year of his contract. And I picked up Tarasenko off of the waiver wire in the fall of 2014. For every example like this, there are of course 20+ where a GM picks up a guy and he doesn't experience that big break out, and you have to let him go come September when we submit keeper selections.

    The point is that just everyone GM in the league knew that each of these players had a high ceiling. But when you only have 6 keeper spots, you can't allocate any of them to 'maybes': you need sure things if you want to compete the next year. So I guess the question is, is Boeser one of those guys who will experience the big breakout in his 4th year, or can he do it before that ala Karlsson, Tarasenko, etc.?
    -----------------

    LEAGUE: keeper -- 6 keepers per year, no farm; roto; 10 managers, 18-man rosters; 2 C, 2 LW, 2 RW, 4 D, 1 UTIL, 2 G, 5 Bench; limits of 99 games per skater position & 82 games per goalie position; daily roster moves; max 100 waiver wire transactions per year; scoring categories of G, A, +/-, HIT, PPP, SOG, DEF (points by d-men), W, GAA, SA%, and SV.

    ROSTER:

    C: Trocheck, Granlund (RW), Monahan
    LW: Benn*, Ovechkin* (RW), Hoffman
    RW: Kucherov*, Tarasenko*, Hornqvist
    D: Karlsson*, Ristolainen, Gardiner, Trouba, Jokiharju
    G:: Vasilevskiy*, Talbot, Elliott, Reimer

    * = 2018 keepers

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    Default Re: Benn for Boeser+?

    Quote Originally Posted by rooneypoo View Post
    The trick with a limited keeper league (keep 6) is timing -- grabbing and holding onto a guy in the year he's about to break out. I drafted Karlsson in the 3rd round the first year he played a full season, dropped him, then re-drafted him in the 4th round the next year, and never looked back thereafter. I drafted Vasilevskiy in the 3rd round the year Bishop was in his last year of his contract. And I picked up Tarasenko off of the waiver wire in the fall of 2014. For every example like this, there are of course 20+ where a GM picks up a guy and he doesn't experience that big break out, and you have to let him go come September when we submit keeper selections.

    The point is that just everyone GM in the league knew that each of these players had a high ceiling. But when you only have 6 keeper spots, you can't allocate any of them to 'maybes': you need sure things if you want to compete the next year. So I guess the question is, is Boeser one of those guys who will experience the big breakout in his 4th year, or can he do it before that ala Karlsson, Tarasenko, etc.?
    Easy keep benn here, he is the sure thing. New coach and he's looking like the benn from a few years ago. I wouldn't worry for at least two more seasons.
    Set roster weekly in H2H (Mon to Sun) - 16 Teams - start 6F, 3D, and 1G per week - Keep 2

    Points: 2 G / 2 A / 1 PPG / 1 PPA / 1 Hat Trick / 1 SHG / 1 SHA / 1 GWG - 3 Goalie Win / 2 Goalie Loss in SO or OT / 5 goalie SO

    Forwards:
    S. Crosby, N. MacKinnon, J. Tavares, S. Aho, B. Schenn, R. Getzlaf, M. Stone, E. Lindholm, M. Zibanajed

    Defense:
    K. Yandle, D. Hamilton, J. Morrissey

    Goalie:
    C. Talbot

    IR (2 max):
    T. Krug
    S. Weber

    2017 league champ
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    Default Re: Benn for Boeser+?

    Quote Originally Posted by rooneypoo View Post
    The trick with a limited keeper league (keep 6) is timing -- grabbing and holding onto a guy in the year he's about to break out. I drafted Karlsson in the 3rd round the first year he played a full season, dropped him, then re-drafted him in the 4th round the next year, and never looked back thereafter. I drafted Vasilevskiy in the 3rd round the year Bishop was in his last year of his contract. And I picked up Tarasenko off of the waiver wire in the fall of 2014. For every example like this, there are of course 20+ where a GM picks up a guy and he doesn't experience that big break out, and you have to let him go come September when we submit keeper selections.

    The point is that just everyone GM in the league knew that each of these players had a high ceiling. But when you only have 6 keeper spots, you can't allocate any of them to 'maybes': you need sure things if you want to compete the next year. So I guess the question is, is Boeser one of those guys who will experience the big breakout in his 4th year, or can he do it before that ala Karlsson, Tarasenko, etc.?
    I agree with the timing bit, but it also comes down to what you expect from your team in a particular season. You can have Benn, Wheeler, Kopitar (ie: like my team) all you want, and try to win that year, but even with Benn off to a great start, my team is in last place at the moment (albeit it's early), and my trade just went through overnight, but Keller is 20, it's not like I acquired an 18 year old Keller. Chances are, he explodes in the next couple of years, and I've got the ability to sign him to 4 after this season. Boeser I can only sign to 2 max, but it's because he was my rookie carry-over, but again he's 21, so with players hitting their primes earlier nowadays, I don't think it's awful to have Boeser at 23/24, and Keller at 20-25, and adding onto this: Barkov at 22-26 (I got him last year), because they are all on the upswing, and when it comes time to move them, they'll be a lot more attractive than 30+ year olds. We're not talking about Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, like a generational talent here. I love Benn, but I also read threads that spoke of him breaking down in the next few years, and now they have a new coach and he's producing and everyone loves the guy again. I was more on the side of he's still a helluva player, maybe not 89 pt Benn, but 75-85, but I still have a competitive team with Barkov, Kopitar, Boeser, Wheeler, Keller, Carter, Lee, Pavelski, OEL, Dumba, Bobrovsky, etc. I may not win this year, or next or whatever, but I am going against 1 team that has Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, and another that has Malkin, MacKinnon, Rakell, etc, and weaker teams from last year that improved, so in getting Keller and Pav and a pick for Benn and Mantha, I feel if anything it's a wash in total for this season, with more potential once Keller truly hits his stride. If Keller becomes 70+ pt player soon, and I had waited and tried to move Benn at say 30, no chance that happens. My management strategy is a bit hybrid, I want to compete every year, but I'm not afraid to shake up my keepers either and trade for younger players. Sure, I used to have MacKinnon, I had Pasta, I had Aho, had Kuzy, and now I've got Boeser, Keller, Barkov, but there were reasons those guys were moved when they were, and you can't time everything perfectly with every player you have. But said team with Ovie, Crosby, McDavid, yeah he's in great shape with McDavid, and he may win in the next couple of years again, but he'll have a mid 30s Ovie, an approaching that guy in Crosby, and what's he realistically going to get for them at that time? I guess my main thing is, balance youth with experience, and that doesn't just have to be keeper wise, can be how you draft. I had Kopitar, Wheeler, Benn, Barkov, Boeser going into this year, and now I have Kopitar, Wheeler, Keller, Barkov, Boeser, and Zadina, and vets on my team like Carter and Pavelski that were just drafted this year, and can help me compete now, but I'm also set up well for many, many years ahead.That's my 2 cents anyways, a lot of guys would love to have Barkov, Boeser and Keller as their core!
    Keeper League
    No Salary Cap
    Skater points: A (2), GWG (1), G (3), ShG (1), Hat Trick (1), Overtime Goal (1), +/- (0.5), PPA (0.5), PPG (1), SHA (1), SHG (2)
    Goalie points: A (2), G (10), SHO (4), W (5), OL + ShL (2)
    Current keepers: Wheeler (3), Benn (2), Kopitar (1), Barkov (4), Boeser (rookie carry-over)
    C/LW/RW
    Daily
    Starters: C - Barkov, Kopitar, LW - Keller, Lee, RW - Boeser, Wheeler, D - Dumba, OEL, Skt - Carter, G - Bobrovsky
    Bench: Pavelski, Meier, Ekblad, Allen
    Rookie: Zadina
    IR:

    Max GP: C (164), LW (164), RW (164), D (164), Skt (82), Goalie (82)
    1 rookie slot (inactive)
    2 IR slots
    14 teams (4 keepers/team + can carry 1 rookie over)
    Fantrax


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    Default Re: Benn for Boeser+?

    Quote Originally Posted by GSD View Post
    I like Boeser long term. Had a very good year last. Don'T think it was a fluke.
    I second this
    Keeper League
    No Salary Cap
    Skater points: A (2), GWG (1), G (3), ShG (1), Hat Trick (1), Overtime Goal (1), +/- (0.5), PPA (0.5), PPG (1), SHA (1), SHG (2)
    Goalie points: A (2), G (10), SHO (4), W (5), OL + ShL (2)
    Current keepers: Wheeler (3), Benn (2), Kopitar (1), Barkov (4), Boeser (rookie carry-over)
    C/LW/RW
    Daily
    Starters: C - Barkov, Kopitar, LW - Keller, Lee, RW - Boeser, Wheeler, D - Dumba, OEL, Skt - Carter, G - Bobrovsky
    Bench: Pavelski, Meier, Ekblad, Allen
    Rookie: Zadina
    IR:

    Max GP: C (164), LW (164), RW (164), D (164), Skt (82), Goalie (82)
    1 rookie slot (inactive)
    2 IR slots
    14 teams (4 keepers/team + can carry 1 rookie over)
    Fantrax


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    Default Re: Benn for Boeser+?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeafsFan1967 View Post
    ... but he'll have a mid 30s Ovie, an approaching that guy in Crosby, and what's he realistically going to get for them at that time?
    Who cares what he can trade Crosby and ovi for in 3-5 years if he has a few championships to show for it. Fantasy hockey isn't about trading your best players before their best before date more than it's about winning. If your league undervalues players just because they turn 30 then exploit that. The GM with Crosby and Ovi is doing just that.

    I mean does boeser even have ppg upside anytime soon? I'm not so sure. Benns floor is probably around 75 and he plays on one of the best lines/power plays in the NHL. We're not talking about a 39 year old Joe Thornton here, we're talking aboit a 29 year old that still has a lot of life left at an elite level (likely more than 2 years, which we shouldn't be looking much further out anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by rooneypoo View Post
    Obviously, for me, for this year, this is a huge NO
    You nailed it. To answer your other question about boeser long term. I think he *could be* a 40/40 guy. More like 35/35 and I think he, and the canucks, are a few years away. I need to see another season of 16+% shooting percentage before Im convinced that can be his norm. Essentially benn is way safer for at least 2 more years, probably more, but worth the reassess in a couple seasons.

    I like your winger keeper assessment and I'd put boeser in the 60s this season. If you went through with the trade I think you'd have to be prepares to keep him and ride it out/hope for the best. Picks can have big value in limited keepers but I'd need it to be a huge pick win to consider this move and take the risk with boeser.
    Set roster weekly in H2H (Mon to Sun) - 16 Teams - start 6F, 3D, and 1G per week - Keep 2

    Points: 2 G / 2 A / 1 PPG / 1 PPA / 1 Hat Trick / 1 SHG / 1 SHA / 1 GWG - 3 Goalie Win / 2 Goalie Loss in SO or OT / 5 goalie SO

    Forwards:
    S. Crosby, N. MacKinnon, J. Tavares, S. Aho, B. Schenn, R. Getzlaf, M. Stone, E. Lindholm, M. Zibanajed

    Defense:
    K. Yandle, D. Hamilton, J. Morrissey

    Goalie:
    C. Talbot

    IR (2 max):
    T. Krug
    S. Weber

    2017 league champ
    2018 league champ

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    Default Re: Benn for Boeser+?

    Quote Originally Posted by MZac View Post
    Who cares what he can trade Crosby and ovi for in 3-5 years if he has a few championships to show for it. Fantasy hockey isn't about trading your best players before their best before date more than it's about winning. If your league undervalues players just because they turn 30 then exploit that. The GM with Crosby and Ovi is doing just that.

    I mean does boeser even have ppg upside anytime soon? I'm not so sure. Benns floor is probably around 75 and he plays on one of the best lines/power plays in the NHL. We're not talking about a 39 year old Joe Thornton here, we're talking aboit a 29 year old that still has a lot of life left at an elite level (likely more than 2 years, which we shouldn't be looking much further out anyway).



    You nailed it. To answer your other question about boeser long term. I think he *could be* a 40/40 guy. More like 35/35 and I think he, and the canucks, are a few years away. I need to see another season of 16+% shooting percentage before Im convinced that can be his norm. Essentially benn is way safer for at least 2 more years, probably more, but worth the reassess in a couple seasons.

    I like your winger keeper assessment and I'd put boeser in the 60s this season. If you went through with the trade I think you'd have to be prepares to keep him and ride it out/hope for the best. Picks can have big value in limited keepers but I'd need it to be a huge pick win to consider this move and take the risk with boeser.
    I'm just about being consistent year to year, and if my team pops and wins, great. And I was only going to have Benn for this season and next at most, not like I traded a 4 year keeper for Keller. Benn I?m sure will be really productive for several more seasons, but Keller is on the upswing still, Benn we've seen his best (I think). Palmieri has 6 goals already, yeah Benn has a track record but I still think 75-85 is where he'll finish. Keller has so much room to grow, and I'll enjoy it!

    Benn isn't a generational talent, he's good but I've already got a 32 year old Wheeler, so I don't see the big issue hedging my bets with Keller from 20-25 vs Benn at 29-30. I'm swinging for the fences man, the team with Crosby, McDavid, etc I know I brought up, but those are generational guys so I don't blame that gm for having an older Crosby and Ovie, I was just making a general comment with older guys that they will decline as assets, vs guys in their early 20s we haven't seen their best yet, so if you can have them long-term, good chance they'll keep getting better. I want to compete now, but also be good in subsequent seasons, and continue to get better if that makes any sense.

    And I didn't do a 1 for 1 trade, there were other pieces which can't be ignored, even if they were just short term (aside from the pick I got).

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