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Thread: Crazy hand to determine the final table at the 2018 WSOP Main Event

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    Default Re: Crazy hand to determine the final table at the 2018 WSOP Main Event

    It's just bad luck. It happens, but it's the timing that makes it worse.

    It reminds me of the hand in the big one for one drop WSOP event a couple of years ago. The buy-in was $1 million, something like only 45 people signed up and the winner took home $14 million. The most memorable hand was AA vs AA.


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    Default Re: Crazy hand to determine the final table at the 2018 WSOP Main Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    I don't see how anybody can get away from Kings in that position. What are you afraid of? Aces? Ten handed, if one of those guys has Queens and the other has AK, Kings are huge. The only time I would EVER fold Kings pre-flop, is if I was certain somebody else has Aces. You WANT to be all in for all of your chips with Kings. That's how you get a monster stack. You can't fault him for his play.

    Rylant
    Sorry but I have to respectively disagree...Golfguy is 100% correct. As great as holding KK is, you'll still run pocket kings into AA 1 out of 20 times while you have them. Labat started the hand with 85bb, then he flat called the initial raise of 2.5bb. Once another player reraises allin and the initial raiser instantly goes allin over the top (for 85% of Labat's stack) it's almost certain 1 of them has AA. Especially when you take into consideration that it's the WSOP Main Event final table...people aren't gonna go crazy in a multi way pot and spew their stack away without the absolute premium of hands... it's life changing money to these guys, simply laddering up to the next pay jump is 100's of thousands of dollars more. Plus it's not even like Labat was remotely close to being pot committed having only committed 2.5bb of his 85bb stack. So for that reason alone it should've been an EASY FOLD for Labat.

    You used an example of "what if" one of the opponents had QQ and the other had AK... I agree having KK is big in this spot but KK will still only win 56% of the time (basically the odds of flipping a coin), QQ would win 18% and AK would win 25%.

    Calling 1 opponents allin while holding KK is fine, but once it becomes multi-way the chances of KK winning vs 2 random hands is drastically less.
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    Default Re: Crazy hand to determine the final table at the 2018 WSOP Main Event

    Quote Originally Posted by newfcollins View Post
    It's just bad luck. It happens, but it's the timing that makes it worse.

    It reminds me of the hand in the big one for one drop WSOP event a couple of years ago. The buy-in was $1 million, something like only 45 people signed up and the winner took home $14 million. The most memorable hand was AA vs AA.

    Ouch! Bad enough losing to a suck out but for it to happen like that is painful.

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    Default Re: Crazy hand to determine the final table at the 2018 WSOP Main Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Avalanche_Ambush View Post
    Sorry but I have to respectively disagree...Golfguy is 100% correct. As great as holding KK is, you'll still run pocket kings into AA 1 out of 20 times while you have them. Labat started the hand with 85bb, then he flat called the initial raise of 2.5bb. Once another player reraises allin and the initial raiser instantly goes allin over the top (for 85% of Labat's stack) it's almost certain 1 of them has AA. Especially when you take into consideration that it's the WSOP Main Event final table...people aren't gonna go crazy in a multi way pot and spew their stack away without the absolute premium of hands... it's life changing money to these guys, simply laddering up to the next pay jump is 100's of thousands of dollars more. Plus it's not even like Labat was remotely close to being pot committed having only committed 2.5bb of his 85bb stack. So for that reason alone it should've been an EASY FOLD for Labat.

    You used an example of "what if" one of the opponents had QQ and the other had AK... I agree having KK is big in this spot but KK will still only win 56% of the time (basically the odds of flipping a coin), QQ would win 18% and AK would win 25%.

    Calling 1 opponents allin while holding KK is fine, but once it becomes multi-way the chances of KK winning vs 2 random hands is drastically less.
    I have listened to a lot of the experts with multiple bracelets discuss this hand, and the overwhelming consensus amongst them, is that you can’t fold Kings. You are trying to win the main event, and if you double up, or even triple up, you put yourself in the strong position to win. Also, if you are playing scared and willing to lay down kings here, you probably never make it to this position in the first place. People who win these tournaments largely do it with aggressive play, taking advantage of people who would lay down kings in this type of situation. If it is a crazy situation and you run into aces, so be it. At least you still have chips left and are still in the tournament.

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    Default Re: Crazy hand to determine the final table at the 2018 WSOP Main Event

    Don't forget, you can't judge it based on this hand and the cards you see. They have been playing against each other for a week. They have reads on their opponents, and they have to trust that. Maybe Labat has seen these guys make the same move with jacks earlier in the week. They have lots of info to make a decision, more than just what we see in this one specific hand.

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    Default Re: Crazy hand to determine the final table at the 2018 WSOP Main Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    I have listened to a lot of the experts with multiple bracelets discuss this hand, and the overwhelming consensus amongst them, is that you can’t fold Kings. You are trying to win the main event, and if you double up, or even triple up, you put yourself in the strong position to win. Also, if you are playing scared and willing to lay down kings here, you probably never make it to this position in the first place. People who win these tournaments largely do it with aggressive play, taking advantage of people who would lay down kings in this type of situation. If it is a crazy situation and you run into aces, so be it. At least you still have chips left and are still in the tournament.

    Rylant
    Well I'm no pro and have never won bracelets but there was a breif time in my life I played poker (mostly online) for a living so I do understand the fundamentals of tournament poker. I've seen pros even fold AA preflop due to table dyamics and situations before so KK is also definitely foldable as well. If he was the overwhelming chip leader ten by all means take a chance with KK... or if he was a smaller stack with let's say 20bb then by all means it's probably a call as well with KK... but with a good healthy stack with virtually nothing committed it's a fold. Even Maria Ho says in the video KK is foldable in that situation.
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    Default Re: Crazy hand to determine the final table at the 2018 WSOP Main Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    I don't see how anybody can get away from Kings in that position. What are you afraid of? Aces? Ten handed, if one of those guys has Queens and the other has AK, Kings are huge. The only time I would EVER fold Kings pre-flop, is if I was certain somebody else has Aces. You WANT to be all in for all of your chips with Kings. That's how you get a monster stack. You can't fault him for his play.

    Rylant
    I absolutely agree. That is basically the best you can do. Poker is a game where you mainly have to play the odds and you can't win every time. 10-handed, what are the odds another player has rockets? They are so minimal. You have to shove. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I think that's why they call it gambling.

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