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Thread: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

  1. #106
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    yeah you never need a #1 center
    Shrug. You're paying a player with a long history of skating issues $11 mil per season until he's 35, probably at the cost of losing you one of Marner, Kadri, or Nylander and possibly two. Everyone needs a #1 center, you just need it less if you already have one.

  2. #107
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    yeah you never need a #1 center
    I thought they drafted their #1C???
    10 Team, Points Only, Cash League

    25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
    Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
    Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt

    Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink

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  3. #108
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    This thread appears drastically close to going off the rails.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    So is anyone willing to change their mind and say that signing Tavares has not helped the Maple Leafs?

    The Leafs points percentages over the past 3 seasons:

    2017/18 - .640
    Tavares Signed
    2018/19 - .610
    2019/20 - .579

  5. #110
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I said and meant it last summer, it still stands today.

    Until the Leafs fix their backend, they wont do much in the playoffs. Dealing Nylander and even Kadri should be able to bring them back a solid defender or two. They don't need offensive Dmen, they got those already. I've always said, the Leafs need a couple guys like Vlasic or Slavin type guys to fix what ails them. Until they get those quiet defensive gems, they will struggle. They lose the games in their own end and clearly, all the offense in the world cant fix that.
    I said it last summer, and the summer before that, and I am still saying it and I am still right.

    I am not blaming John Tavares for this. He's done his part to help this team score, but management still hasn't fixed their biggest hole and it continues to show in the lack of their playoff success.

    They didn't need JT when they signed him. God knows they need him now because of the moves made since, but at the time, they didn't.
    10 Team, Points Only, Cash League

    25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
    Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
    Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt

    Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink

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  6. #111
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    This was always a PR move and not a hockey move. Then they repeated the mistake by trading Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot.

    Then again, I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't reveling in the schadenfreude.

  7. #112
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Deploying Kadri as the shut-down center:
    1. Only works at home, where line-matching can be done, and
    2. Doesn't fully solve the Leafs defensive woes.

    Defensively, the Leafs may have to let both Gardiner & Hainsey walk next summer, because they'll need funds to pay their RFAs (Matthews, Marner, Leivo, and Kapanen!!! Four of them!!!).
    https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

    As soon as that happens, the Leafs D is even worse.

    The Leafs are a poor defensive team right now... and could be even worse in 2019-2020.
    SOME asset is going to have to be moved to get a decent-tagged defenseman, because they won't be able to AFFORD anybody as a 2019 UFA D.

    ***This is a very, very, very similar situation to the Oilers... who royally fugged themselves by overstocking forwards and feeling ransomed to get decent D.***

    Hence, the Leafs will eventually (within 1.2 years) have to move SOME asset to improve their D.
    I see one or two options for the Leafs: Kadri & Nylander.
    And Kadri is, by far, the more valuable NHL asset as a C2-type player with a really nice cap hit for several year (4 years, thru 2022!).

    My post (about TRADING Kadri) wasn't at all about deploying Kadri as C3.
    It's about the Leafs defensive problems which are more likely to get worse... than better.
    Kadri is simply the Leafs most expendable, quality asset in order to improve their defense.

    Fun thread bump.
    (although some/many don't like thread bumps - it's a great way to self-check on whether the things we predict had good merit)


    I'm giving myself an A- for my comments.



    I certainly (in honesty) thought the Leafs would at least be a "good team"... but they were middling.
    Whether I posted it or not... I didn't think they would have two straight first-round playoff exits.
    The Leafs DID lose Hainsey & Gardiner, they DID move Kadri, their defense DID get worse, and they ARE similar to the Oilers - heck, they were the only two home teams to lose in any round of the 2020 Stanley Cup playoffs!!! LOL!

    (post quoted above was from July 2, 2018. Kadri was traded July 1, 2019... so I squeaked in my 1.2 year trade timeline!!! Nice!)

  8. #113
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    In hindsight we would have been better off not signing Tavares and using that money to bolster the blue line.

    Alternatively, we could have signed Tavares but NOT signed Marner, but I prefer to keep the younger guy since Tavares is on the decline.

  9. #114
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Dubas has made plenty of mistakes.
    The Tavares signing wasn't one of them.

    I have a much bigger issue with money that's being paid to Nylander, Marner, and Ceci. Muzzin too starting next year.

    All of those 4 are replaceable pieces for much less than what KD paid them.

    But try to find a top line centre when you need one. Forget it. You can never have too much depth up the middle.
    Without Tavares, they are one hit away to Auston's wonky shoulder from everyone lamenting - "Wow, the Leafs sure are weak at centre!"

    The Pens built their team around two #1 centres.
    Worked pretty well.

  10. #115
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Dubas has made plenty of mistakes.
    The Tavares signing wasn't one of them.

    I have a much bigger issue with money that's being paid to Nylander, Marner, and Ceci. Muzzin too starting next year.

    All of those 4 are replaceable pieces for much less than what KD paid them.

    But try to find a top line centre when you need one. Forget it. You can never have too much depth up the middle.
    Without Tavares, they are one hit away to Auston's wonky shoulder from everyone lamenting - "Wow, the Leafs sure are weak at centre!"

    The Pens built their team around two #1 centres.
    Worked pretty well.
    I said this in this thread way back when but I'll say it again. They didn't have to go looking for a top line center. They just finished drafting their top line center in Austin Matthews. They had a very good 2C in Kadri for a fraction of the price of what both Matthews and Tavares make today.

    I still like JT, but the Leafs had bigger issues that needed to be addressed before signing an expensive center. They still do.
    10 Team, Points Only, Cash League

    25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
    Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
    Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt

    Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink

    G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger


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  11. #116
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    We are also exploring/revisiting the Tavares signing from a "performance" standpoint.

    Signing Tavares rejuvenated the HOPE from Toronto fans.
    I'd speculate that TV ratings and their ability to raise ticket prices (I don't know, I don't live in ONT anymore) have been the best of last 25 years.
    The team hasn't had this much "talent", at least, in a long... long time.

    They were also BOUND to fall... the best value per $ that teams with dynamic young players get is when those players are in their last ELC (or bridge years) and the team can cap-spend.
    As soon as they lock in Matthews, Marner, Nylander... they're obviously skating with same roster, but less cap space.
    The value in young players is always at the ends of their contracts (or should be), not in their first years.

    2018-19 should have been their best year. (final ELC year for Marner/Matthews)
    2019-20 should be been their worst year. (first year of Marner/Matthews cap hit on new contracts)
    Then... as the kids rise in maturity, but cap hit stays the same... the team should slowly rise up.

    There's an exploration in value/cap-hit that some () are concluding on... probably too early.

  12. #117
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Tavares is not the problem. Still like the signing. Dubas’ mistake was sinking another $17Million in Nylander and Marner combined. Optics suggest “you hold out...Dubas will succumb”. That’s his first big mistake. Then not addressing the blue line for several years is #2. Tavares is anything but on the decline. He’s played like the player they paid him to be. It he’s not a Defender. And Barrie, which could have been a great move, failed. Then again, it was clear he was a shoot first D so likely he wasn’t the right target to begin with. Now we get to see him navigate the flat cap vs the situation he’s built and completely owns with Lou and BABS gone. This is my opinion as a fan of the team. I’m looking forward to see what he does now.

  13. #118
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    Tavares is not the problem. Still like the signing. Dubas’ mistake was sinking another $17Million in Nylander and Marner combined. Optics suggest “you hold out...Dubas will succumb”. That’s his first big mistake. Then not addressing the blue line for several years is #2. Tavares is anything but on the decline. He’s played like the player they paid him to be. It he’s not a Defender. And Barrie, which could have been a great move, failed. Then again, it was clear he was a shoot first D so likely he wasn’t the right target to begin with. Now we get to see him navigate the flat cap vs the situation he’s built and completely owns with Lou and BABS gone. This is my opinion as a fan of the team. I’m looking forward to see what he does now.
    Agree. Too much money on Nylander. Agree also, that their defense isn’t looking good...
    1) 16 teams full keeper H2H. Start 9F, 4D, 1G, 2 Championships
    pts: (D : 7 pts G /5 pts A), (F : 5pts G /3 pts A), (G : 10 pts W / 5 pts SO), (D/F : 1 pt +/-, 0.5 pts PIM, 0.1 FOW, 0.2 Hits, 0.3 pts SOG, PP and SH).

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    Defenses : Dahlin, Fox, Doughty, Toews, , Slavin, Miller

    Goalies : Oettinger, Vanecek, Bobrovsky

    Prospects : Dostal, Schmid, Chinakhov, Bordeleau, Ostlund, Brindley, Gulyayev

  14. #119
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Kinda difficult to improve the D when so many funds are allocated to forwards, one of them being Tavares.


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  15. #120
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    Default Re: [SIGNED] Tavares in Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by ericdaoust View Post
    Kinda difficult to improve the D when so many funds are allocated to forwards, one of them being Tavares.
    Pffft, its not like defence wins championships or something.

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