[TRADE] Hurricanes deal Hanifin, Lindholm to CAL for Hamilton, Ferland, Fox

[MZac]

Well personally I like Hamilton more than hannifin and I like Lindholm more than Ferland.

I wonder if we could see Faulk on the move soon.

[PrairieDog]

I don't get why there was always some kind of urgency to move Hamilton, his name always came up. Maybe a bad fit in the locker room?

And Fox? Maybe he told them there was no way he would sign?

Bad deal for the Flames IMO - the players they got are far from proven (though I like Hanifin) and Hamilton is clearly a high-tier NHL defenceman. Adding Fox to it has got me scratching my head.

rataylor mentioned Chiarelli - he does have an indirect hand in this of course

[chuckcouples]

I believe the quote on Dougie Hamilton was something along these lines:

"The whole team would go for lunch at Moxies for lunch and Dougie Hamilton would go to the museum."

[StuntMan12]

Calgary traded one of the best offensive defensmen in the NHL, a legitimate #1D signed at a bargain contract for 3 more years, a serviceable middle six forward making under $2 million and was on pace for 30 goals at mid season before his line and consistency took a nose dive, and one of the top defensive prospects outside the NHL, not to mention both are RHD which are a more scarce commodity in the NHL

For

A #4D you hope might develop to a #2D at best who shoots left and is an RFA who probably has similar contract demands to Hamilton and a middle six winger who?s topped out at 17 goals and 45 points and is an RFA asking 5x5.

Hamilton and Ferland for Hanifin and Lindholm would have been an overpayment. Adding in Fox is asinine.

As to Als addendum, their draft slot is irrelevant at this point. Their performance to date is all that matters now.

Agreed with rataylor. This is bad for Calgary. Didn't see the need to throw in Adam Fox who's stock has been climbing lately.

[als_revenge]

My favourite is Al just posted 2 Francis articles from separate outlets.

I only skimmed then and posted them for info; I didn't even look at who the author was for each.

Key point being ... you can analyze and criticize this trade from a hockey perspective all you want. But if you don't know what's going on behind the scenes, you are basically shooting from the hip. There is also a yahoo report out that says "More than one insider have since suggested that it may be because of ?chemistry issues? in the room." If Calgary was desperate to move this guy because of locker room issues, and a lot of teams didn't want to take him on for the reason, then you are going to end up with a trade that you aren't going to win on paper.

My first reaction to this trade (go back and read it, if you want) was wondering if character issues played a significant role in the trade. And it sounds like it's possible that this had a role in the decision to move Hamilton and in the return. One team trading a "locker room problem" to another team for "contract problems".

[Ingolo]

I believe the quote on Dougie Hamilton was something along these lines:

"The whole team would go for lunch at Moxies for lunch and Dougie Hamilton would go to the museum."

So, the rest of the team wanted to go hit on servers in skimpy uniforms, and Hamilton (who won scholastic player of the year in the CHL) has different interests. I feel like in this situation, Dougie isn't the problem, it's the rest of the room. So what if a guy prefers art over socializing? If the rest of the team doesn't like the guy for having different interests, there's a culture problem in the room that needs to be addressed. Heaven forbid a pro athlete is also an intellectual.

[ericdaoust]

Character is such a cliche word. It's a vague word that basically means whatever the team wants it to mean in the moment.

It's not the first time a player is criticized in the room for not being bothered by losing. Subban was criticized for the same thing. He gets dealt and... imagine this... there are still problems in the room. IMO it says more about other Flames players than anything. What I've read is weak when it comes to painting Hamilton as a player that must go. Put 30 adults on the road for 6 months and life won't be perfect. Personalities will differ and adults will even argue from time to time. Happens in any line of work or any sports team.

So let's take some bets on which Flames player is next on the "must go" list due to "character issues" and "locker room problems"

[Ingolo]

Character is such a cliche word. It's a vague word that basically means whatever the team wants it to mean in the moment.

It's not the first time a player is criticized in the room for not being bothered by losing. Subban was criticized for the same thing. He gets dealt and... imagine this... there are still problems in the room. IMO it says more about other Flames players than anything. What I've read is weak when it comes to painting Hamilton as a player that must go. Put 30 adults on the road for 6 months and life won't be perfect. Personalities will differ and adults will even argue from time to time. Happens in any line of work or any sports team.

So let's take some bets on which Flames player is next on the "must go" list due to "character issues" and "locker room problems"

The other side of it that I keep thinking about is that Ferland was supposed to be one of those "high character" guys. So even if they DID ship out their "locker room problem," they also had to lose a guy who they felt was good in the room. It just doesn't make sense if that's going to be the justification, which tells me it's just an easy narrative to feed to the fans.

[als_revenge]

I just have a feeling there is more going in this story than is being reported. It reminds me of the Mike Hoffman thing in the sense that I couldn't understand all the rumours and all the suggestions that he needed to be traded. Especially considering the chemistry he developed with Duchene and knowing that scoring goals isn't exactly Ottawa's strength. Part of me wonders if Calgary has been looking to move him since that whole weirdness thing with his brother being cut. But at the end of the day, I have no idea what the Calgary players think of Hamilton or whether addition by subtraction can work in this case. I just have a feeling that this wasn't a typical "hockey trade."

[rataylor22]

It certainly wasn’t a “hockey trade”. That’s not what’s in question. It’s whether it actually matters. The answer is probably no. Canadian markets are littered with examples of Canadians teams who overvalue some type of vague character variable that actually doesn’t matter and let themselves get ripped off in value by American teams who know that shit doesn’t matter. Hall and Subban were both bad character dudes that you can’t win with and the American teams acquiring them ripped off the Canadian teams overvaluing vague and irrelevant variable. Lucid was the “big character” guy who two years in wants a trade. The Hamilton deal is just the latest example of American teams exploiting Canadian market inefficiencies. There’s pretty obvious reasons Canadian teams haven’t won a cup in over 25 years. It’s pretty easy to figure out.

[ericdaoust]

I don't believe it is responsible to compare Hamilton to Hoffman without any facts pointing in that direction. Hoffman's situation is extreme and unique.

[Bobby4Ever]

So, the rest of the team wanted to go hit on servers in skimpy uniforms, and Hamilton (who won scholastic player of the year in the CHL) has different interests. I feel like in this situation, Dougie isn't the problem, it's the rest of the room. So what if a guy prefers art over socializing? If the rest of the team doesn't like the guy for having different interests, there's a culture problem in the room that needs to be addressed. Heaven forbid a pro athlete is also an intellectual.

If a player wants to go off and do his own thing once in a while that's fine but if it was a constant choice to be on his own instead of being with the rest of the team then that's a player issue and not a team problem.

[ericdaoust]

If a player wants to go off and do his own thing once in a while that's fine but if it was a constant choice to be on his own instead of being with the rest of the team then that's a player issue and not a team problem.

Also very debatable if that merits being painted with such a negative brush, let alone being traded for chemistry reasons. Seems childish for other players to be so offended. Not the first time I've seen this scenario and it never works out for the team.

[Bobby4Ever]

im guessing where he didn't work out in Boston and now has been moved by the Flames that there are other reasons teams choose to move a talent like Hamilton that we are not aware of. See how he fares in Carolina.

[als_revenge]

It certainly wasn’t a “hockey trade”. That’s not what’s in question. It’s whether it actually matters. The answer is probably no. Canadian markets are littered with examples of Canadians teams who overvalue some type of vague character variable that actually doesn’t matter and let themselves get ripped off in value by American teams who know that shit doesn’t matter. Hall and Subban were both bad character dudes that you can’t win with and the American teams acquiring them ripped off the Canadian teams overvaluing vague and irrelevant variable. Lucid was the “big character” guy who two years in wants a trade. The Hamilton deal is just the latest example of American teams exploiting Canadian market inefficiencies. There’s pretty obvious reasons Canadian teams haven’t won a cup in over 25 years. It’s pretty easy to figure out.

The Jets traded E Kane for character issues and I'd argue that they did very well. And Calgary obtained Hamilton from Boston in the first place, presumably that trade isn't that bad either. Linking two bad trades to all Canadian teams overall preformance seems like a bit of a stretch.