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Thread: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

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    Default Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Hi everyone,
    Mark Stone is gonna sign a big contract this summer. He had an awesome season, but has been injury prone and is now gonna be really expensive. So two questions:
    1. How much will his cap hit be? Are we talking higher or lower than 6.5-7mil?
    2. Is he worth the cap hit? Does he produce long term at a point per game pace, or close to it (over 70 points)? Do the injuries keep recurring?
    Do I sell high now, or do I hold on to him and enjoy the production? I paid a lot at the deadline for him, only for him to be injured the entire rest of the season! Still won my league anyways!

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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    1. 6-6.5 sounds about right, OTT will steer away from anything higher than that
    2. If he can averages about 60pts with a ceiling of 75pts, then he is worth $6mil, lessor players have been paid more, expect him to play 70 gms per year
    3. I guess it depends on what your definition of sell high is, as it will depend on what you're actually get back for him. If you're comfortable with 60-70 pts per year, keep him unless offer is too good. We haven't seen his best yet.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    With the cap going way up, I would be very surprised to see him below $7M, and I think he could possibly get over $8M. I think his cap hit will be fine but obviously most contracts signed with the lower salary cap are going to look better in comparison but that's just how it goes in the NHL.

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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Hard to say with Ottawa not really excited about handing out big contracts. Most markets he would be expecting something in the $7-8M range but I am not confident he will get close to the $8M range per season.

    Is he worth it? If we are talking about fantasy leagues, if he gets close to $8M he's on the edge of not being worth it for me. Even at $7M I am not sure I'd be comfortable owning him but he's closer to being worth it for me.

    It will be interesting to see how this goes.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    I think Stone's cap hit will be $8 million. From everything I have read/heard, Stone is considered the core piece Ottawa plans to build around, which is partially why they are going to trade Karlsson. They can't have Stone making $8 million and Karlsson getting $11 (which is what he wants/would get on the open market).

    At $8 million, I don't personally think Stone is worth the money (in fantasy hockey). I believe he is maximum a 70-75 pt player. Maybe some think that makes him worth the money, but when you take into equation the injury issues, he is more likely to get 60-65 pts most years.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Melnyk's words about not wanting to spend money, hopefully for Ott fans have been taken out of context. Perhaps he just meant he doesn't want a high salary for a basement team. But won't mind spending for a competitive team. This place needs a new arena downtown first and foremost. Empty seats for conference finals in a Canadian City... poor location is the only excuse.... I'll guess - Stone for 8yrs 7.25.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Given all the factors involved, I honestly don't see his AAV being a nickel above $7M, if even that. He'll take more years is my guess.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    I think the Flames trade for him and sign him to a $7M x 8-year contract.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    1. 8 years at about 7 mil per seems about right. I wouldn't expect more than a 70 point pace and 70-75 games per year.

    2. In cap leagues I feel you can find better value elsewhere. In most cap league setting he'll be average at best.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    I think Stone's cap hit will be $8 million. From everything I have read/heard, Stone is considered the core piece Ottawa plans to build around, which is partially why they are going to trade Karlsson. They can't have Stone making $8 million and Karlsson getting $11 (which is what he wants/would get on the open market).

    At $8 million, I don't personally think Stone is worth the money (in fantasy hockey). I believe he is maximum a 70-75 pt player. Maybe some think that makes him worth the money, but when you take into equation the injury issues, he is more likely to get 60-65 pts most years.
    If Mark Stone gets a multi-year deal @ 8mil a pop, the Sens deserve to be a lottery team for the foreseeable future.

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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
    If Mark Stone gets a multi-year deal @ 8mil a pop, the Sens deserve to be a lottery team for the foreseeable future.
    I don't think he will get 8 but he is certainly worth that. He's one of most complete players in the league and the leader of the team

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    I think the Flames trade for him and sign him to a $7M x 8-year contract.
    sens would never trade him

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    Melnyk's words about not wanting to spend money, hopefully for Ott fans have been taken out of context. Perhaps he just meant he doesn't want a high salary for a basement team. But won't mind spending for a competitive team. This place needs a new arena downtown first and foremost. Empty seats for conference finals in a Canadian City... poor location is the only excuse.... I'll guess - Stone for 8yrs 7.25.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by reggiebarnes View Post
    I don't think he will get 8 but he is certainly worth that. He's one of most complete players in the league and the leader of the team
    He might be a leader on the Sens, put committing to Stone long-term at a cap hit of anything close to 7+ million is very irresponsible, especially for a team that already owns the worst 7+ million winger contract in the league in Ryan ($7.25). And, even flirting with 8 mil is just simply ludicrous and a complete display of incompetence.

    There are NINE wingers in the entire NHL with a 7+ million cap hit:

    1. Kane
    2. Ovechkin
    3. Benn
    4. Perry
    5. Voracek
    6. *Kessel
    7. *Parise
    8. Tarasenko
    9. Ryan

    *2 of the 9 were grandfathered in. Parise's was purposely inflated during the last CBA so Minny could lure him (and Suter) in with contracts they would never be able to get under the new CBA. It's the same rationale employed by the Flyers when offering Shea Weber than mammoth deal. So Parise and Kessel are slight exceptions.

    Perry was overcompensated for career accomplishments and had the Ducks over a barrel. But at least Perry was an "elite" player at his position, not just a very good one.
    Voracek was always a boneheaded contract by the Flyers, over-committing after a breakout season. But, to Voracek's credit, he at least followed up with another 85 point season.

    Out of all 9 of those 7+ mil contracts, Bobby Ryan's is the absolute worst. The Sens need to learn their lesson and put down the pipe.

    What has Stone done to warrant being paid among the Top 10 wingers on the planet? Even Gaudreau and Pastrnak recently committed to long-term deals in the 6's. Is Stone on par with either of those guys?

    Here's why paying Stone even a nickel over $6.125 mil long-term is an over-payment:

    1. Marchand committed to a long-term 6.125 mil contract and is the high-water mark that Stone should HOPE to reach.
    2. Stone has never played a full season, ever.
    3. His last 3 seasons feature 58gp, 71gp, 75gp.
    4. He's never scored 30 goals in a season.
    5. He's never even reached 65 points in a season.
    6. He's never been a Selke nominee - so while he's a good all-around winger, he's definitely not one of the most complete players in the entire league.
    7. He's never made an All-Star game.
    8. He hasn't won a Stanley Cup or a significant individual award.

    If a team like Ottawa - the same team who tried campaigning in the media for Karlsson to "take a hometown discount" - overpays Mark Stone, they deserve the mess they're making. They're already trying to strong-arm teams to take Ryan's contract off their hands in a Karlsson trade, and people would want them to repeat the same mistake? Sure, Stone is better than Ryan, but that's not what he should be measured against.

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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    I think with current market rates Stone is worth at least 7. Open market he might get 8. I could see the Sens trying 8 years at 7, but I dont think especially given Ottawas situation that he will take less than 7, he knows Ottawa needs his skill and leadership bad.

    @fungchen, all your stats are definitely valid, however though he hasnt hit over 65, he has a .81 ppg lifetime and was over ppg this year. This year was the first year he really had a decent part time center (Duchene) and he played less than 15% of his ES time with Duchene and the majority of his time with Brassard, Dzingel amd Smith. Those are not quslity linemates in the slightest. Also he only had 12 PPTs this year of his 62,seems like he definitely has room to grow in both ES and PP. Now this is all under the condition that Karlsson stays that I think Stone will improve to 70-80 one day, Chabot would be a good fill in but production will take a dip.

    Ive also read he is one of the most respected voices in the locker room and I think that has to play a part in a big contract with Ottawas rebuild.
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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanknation View Post
    I think with current market rates Stone is worth at least 7. Open market he might get 8. I could see the Sens trying 8 years at 7, but I dont think especially given Ottawas situation that he will take less than 7, he knows Ottawa needs his skill and leadership bad.

    @fungchen, all your stats are definitely valid, however though he hasnt hit over 65, he has a .81 ppg lifetime and was over ppg this year. This year was the first year he really had a decent part time center (Duchene) and he played less than 15% of his ES time with Duchene and the majority of his time with Brassard, Dzingel amd Smith. Those are not quslity linemates in the slightest. Also he only had 12 PPTs this year of his 62,seems like he definitely has room to grow in both ES and PP. Now this is all under the condition that Karlsson stays that I think Stone will improve to 70-80 one day, Chabot would be a good fill in but production will take a dip.

    Ive also read he is one of the most respected voices in the locker room and I think that has to play a part in a big contract with Ottawas rebuild.
    Tank, I don't disagree about Stone's character, leadership and talent. The problem is, paying him top-tier winger money when he's not in that tier is a mistake. Especially for a team like Ottawa who operates under an internal budget. I feel the same about Wayne Simmonds, as there's talk of him possibly being traded if the Flyers and he can't agree on a long-term deal.

    Simmonds is (in my opinion) the real leader on the Flyers. He's a fan-favorite, the biggest voice in the room, and the player who does the most in the community for charity, mainly the Ed Snider Youth Foundation. Simmonds is my favorite player, and he has 30 goals on his resume, plays a full game, and is one of the best power forwards in the world. That said, the Flyers simply cannot give him top-tier winger money, even if another team is willing to be reckless. Stone falls into the same category as far as I'm concerned.
    However, the Sens might feel as if they don't have a choice, especially if they lose (trade) Karlsson. But if they lose Karlsson over money and at the same time overpay for Stone, you need to question their decision-making, no?

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    Default Re: Mark Stone - worth the next contract?

    Well said Fungchen, they shouldn't be throwing that kind of monwy, but as history has shown, renegotiation rates per year are generally based on open market pricing and I feel there will be suckers out there willing to offer that. I like Simmonds too, no way Philly lets him go after trading Schenn last year! Their fanbase would riot!

    If Karlsson goes it will be mainly about money but opportunity as well, cant fault Karlsson for that. I already question each and everyone of Ottawas decisions thats why Im so comfortable throwing out 8 M, spin tbe wheel of gm decisions could go either way! Im just happy we got Dahlen for Burrows
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