New League idea

[Hockey13Playa]

So I was watching playoff hockey last night and had an idea. (I am sure its been done before).

I thought about setting up a new league that consists of 31 teams (Every NHL team). I had ideas going through my mind of what scoring set up to use, and which cats, etc. I was curious if anyone has ran or been a part of a league of that magnitude before? If so did it work out?

I think it would be a super cool idea to have a league with that many GM's. I would be worried however that the success rate would be low due to having that many GM's? I would make sure there are a few deputy commissioners as well to handle things/issues since that is a lot to watch and monitor for one person.

But having full major roster and minor roster, and some how mimicing NHL rules would be sweet. I think it would have to be a limited keeper for a league this size otherwise things may get ugly first. (Even though my strongsuit comes in full keeper dynasties).

Basically I thought about starting a mega league like this but there are tons of ideas that need to be ironed out with scoring, rosters, matchups, league specifics, etc. Any of you that have been around for quite some time and in many, many pools have advice for starting a league like this?

Would it work? Would you be interested? Any advice or criticism?

[PenguinHunter]

I have seen it done before and I have seen it be semi-successful.

I have also seen it done before and been a huge failure. This instance was when the GM was trying to rush things and was managing 4 teams himself... and then people figured it out during the draft and it failed before the inaugral draft was complete.

I think it would be successful if you had the right managers that were engaged and willing to participate. when there is 31 teams there are going to be clear favourites and clear basement-dwellers just like in the NHL. The biggest task is to keep the basement-dwellers interested in improving their team. My two best suggestions for this would be to have a salary cap... so those top teams have to make tough decisions so that they are not over the cap. The other suggestion would be to make it a full dynasty keeper league. That way the bottom teams could improve through trading their middling talent for prospects and picks and improve just like real NHL teams. With a partial keeper... the top teams would be able to able to drop their worst talent and potentially improve through a re-draft.

[djsasso]

Most of the big ones I have tried like that have failed. Rather I should say all of them have. Some haven't even made it out of the draft.

[SensArmy93]

I think PH nailed most of the points I would mention as well. If you have 31 people who are committed to the league and understand everything that comes with it, you should have no problems.

I commission two leagues. One with 22 teams and one with 16 teams. The larger league is expanding by two this offseason and the smaller league is likely decreasing by two, so I think that goes to show you it all depends on the GM's you have.

[Pengwin7]

I see leagues that try to match NHL team count (31) and roster allocation (12F/6D/1G) as unwise.
It has to do with the fact that an NHL team can do things that a fantasy league, of same size, can NOT.

For example, consider that at the start of an NHL season, you may have 31 teams with the 19 active players.
And your fantasy hockey league, being similar, may indeed start up with 31 teams with the 19 active players.

In the real NHL, if a player goes down with injury, the NHL team brings up a player from AHL (or uses a reserve/healthy scratch), and can sub a guy into line-up to PLAY and get stats.
In a fantasy league, if all active players are owned... well, the odds that the fantasy team with an injured player ALSO happens to own the guy that is subbing in... is 1/31.

Extrapolating that point... VERY OFTEN, there will be teams that simply can NOT roster 19 active NHL players.
When this happens, GMs will throw their hands up and either say "There's nobody playing right now that I can add!" or... they'll use this fact to TANK - and with good reason, having non-playing guys on their active roster.
Down the stretch, other GMs will complain about the "tanking" an inactive players and the league will start about whether teams should be forced to trade... it'll be bad.

So... what any fantasy league SHOULD do is set up a system where the waiver wire (free agency) always has SOMEBODY, even if they stink, that is (at least)... actively playing in NHL games.
To do this, shoot for a total league active roster size that is no more than 90% of the active NHL player count.

31 NHL teams x 18 active skaters per game = 558 active NHL players, playing NHL games.
90% of 558 = 502 skaters.

So... options:
If you want to use 31 NHL teams, go with something like 16 skaters that can be rostered into 9F/5D (active) maybe 2 bench.
31 x 16 = 496 players.

If you want to roster 12F/6D... you have to go with something less for a league team count.

In the WHL, we go with the following:
24 teams, rostering 25 players on their PRO team with a starting roster allocation of 12F/6D/1G + 6 bench.
Teams also have 10 minors players and some teams keep active NHL young players not getting much ice time yet - like... Mark Jankowski (CGY)... on their minors.
I believe the very popular forum league, UHL, uses 24 teams as well.

During this year, we'd have about this many of the following on waivers/free agency:
*C ~ about 10-15 active NHLers... crappy centers, but playing centers - guys like Barclay Goodrow or Darren Helm
*LW ~ about 5-10
*RW ~ about 5-10
*D ~ about 15-30
*G ~ about 2-4 back-ups

In summary:
*Teams will lose interest if they can't find an active NHL player on waivers/FA when a player gets hurt... so...
*Either go 31 teams starting 9F/5D/1G, or
*Go 24 teams starting 12F/6D/1G

[Hockey13Playa]

Thanks for the information so far guys. Especially the detailed responses PW7. Not 100% sure I am up for the challenge by myself. But I think it would be super cool to be a deep huge league like that.

Right now I commission two leagues (1 of 16 teams, the other much newer of 12 teams) and that can be a plateful to handle.I think it would be optimal to have 3-4 people running a league of that size.

That being said I do agree. You really need the best of the best for GM's, that are in it for the long haul, and want to play to have fun, whether their team is atop of the standings or not.

I figured making a post and collecting some information would be the best way to learn about a setup like this. Great points on roster sizing, etc. I think that is a very true statement. Recruting/interviewing to find the perfect GM's for 31 teams could prove to be a tough challenge. Would love to get in on starting this up with a few experienced commissioners if there was interest.

[lucafen4]

Thanks for the information so far guys. Especially the detailed responses PW7. Not 100% sure I am up for the challenge by myself. But I think it would be super cool to be a deep huge league like that.

Right now I commission two leagues (1 of 16 teams, the other much newer of 12 teams) and that can be a plateful to handle.I think it would be optimal to have 3-4 people running a league of that size.

That being said I do agree. You really need the best of the best for GM's, that are in it for the long haul, and want to play to have fun, whether their team is atop of the standings or not.

I figured making a post and collecting some information would be the best way to learn about a setup like this. Great points on roster sizing, etc. I think that is a very true statement. Recruting/interviewing to find the perfect GM's for 31 teams could prove to be a tough challenge. Would love to get in on starting this up with a few experienced commissioners if there was interest.

I've seen commish's send out mini-questionnaires as part of an interview.. I've also seen the most active GM's fall to the waste-side because, well, life happens and priorities change. In any league, even 12, there's inactive owners, variance in knowledge & attrition. Personally, anything over 20 teams and my eyes glaze over with weaning interest. That's me, there are others that won't join a league unless it has 20+ teams.

[butch]

Its not an impossible task but its alot easier to get yourself into a great position to have a solid 12 team league than 30+.

I totally get the excitement of it though but I'd hate to see you get let down

[Hockey13Playa]

I've seen commish's send out mini-questionnaires as part of an interview.. I've also seen the most active GM's fall to the waste-side because, well, life happens and priorities change. In any league, even 12, there's inactive owners, variance in knowledge & attrition. Personally, anything over 20 teams and my eyes glaze over with weaning interest. That's me, there are others that won't join a league unless it has 20+ teams.

I used to do the mini-questionnaire thing for the two leagues I currently run, but it proved to not be to beneficial most times when finding the correct person(s) to bring in to the league, however still not a bad idea. I feel you though on personal preference on league size, some like it some hate it. I never was a HUGE fan of the large sized leagues but thought this may be super cool if executed correctly.

Its not an impossible task but its alot easier to get yourself into a great position to have a solid 12 team league than 30+.

I totally get the excitement of it though but I'd hate to see you get let down

Totally agree with you. Which is why I think to handle something like this. You need a few committed co-commissioners. Daunting task for one person. Thankfully the offseason hasn't even "technically" began yet, so there's time to let this thread mature and let others chime in. Only way I'd consider starting it is again, if I could find a few committed people who would want to co-commission and then obviously to fill each and every team. I wouldn't want any shady business as mentioned above where someone owns 4 teams. After the small sample size of responses I do realize this is probably more so a dream then something that'll actually happen. But I am open to seeing where this thread may go over the course of the summer. (I think it would need to start up sooner than later though due to the fact of needing to go through a screening process of finding 30 other people who want to join).

[ericdaoust]

I interpret this as an attempt to mirror the NHL as closely as possible. It's a great idea but I advise against going too extreme in that direction. This is fantasy hockey after all and the focus should be on fun. After all as much as you try to mirror the NHL you will NOT be running a real league.

IF you go the 31-team route make sure you are willing to take it on the chin a couple times along the way. As much as you try to create the perfect rule set out of the gate you cannot account for all situations. Be ready to make some tough decisions that will upset some of your more committed managers who play strong under the existing rules. IMO as much as it might hurt them you have to do what is best for the long-term health of your league.

Ideally you will find the league setup that caters best to YOU. That probably means scaling back on the number of teams among other changes from your initial ideas.

[PenguinHunter]

Also.... 31 is an odd number. Are you going to have 'bye' weeks?

Who is going to be in the division that has 1 less team? Some teams are going to see it as a disadvantage and not like the idea of an odd number.

[Hockey13Playa]

I interpret this as an attempt to mirror the NHL as closely as possible. It's a great idea but I advise against going too extreme in that direction. This is fantasy hockey after all and the focus should be on fun. After all as much as you try to mirror the NHL you will NOT be running a real league.

IF you go the 31-team route make sure you are willing to take it on the chin a couple times along the way. As much as you try to create the perfect rule set out of the gate you cannot account for all situations. Be ready to make some tough decisions that will upset some of your more committed managers who play strong under the existing rules. IMO as much as it might hurt them you have to do what is best for the long-term health of your league.

Ideally you will find the league setup that caters best to YOU. That probably means scaling back on the number of teams among other changes from your initial ideas.

That is part of the issue and worrisome. Things can be challenging trying to satisfy everyone in a 16 team league I run, let alone something thats double the size. Again - why I think several people co-commissioning that are on the same page may be best. I would be up for all suggestions on how to set up the league, and realize it cant be ran JUST like the NHL, but things that can mirror it closely would be cool.

Also.... 31 is an odd number. Are you going to have 'bye' weeks?

Who is going to be in the division that has 1 less team? Some teams are going to see it as a disadvantage and not like the idea of an odd number.

I actually was thinking... prior to your post. If it ever came to the point of actually getting this up and running and what not. I will make it an even 32. I will add Seattle, since they are all but a lock for an NHL team. I would just use a fictional logo/name until the real one is announced. That way it'll be fair!

[ericdaoust]

That is part of the issue and worrisome. Things can be challenging trying to satisfy everyone in a 16 team league I run, let alone something thats double the size. Again - why I think several people co-commissioning that are on the same page may be best. I would be up for all suggestions on how to set up the league, and realize it cant be ran JUST like the NHL, but things that can mirror it closely would be cool.

Do you think running multiple leagues is a good idea? Wouldn't a 31-team league be best off if it got all of you and not half of you?

[Hockey13Playa]

Do you think running multiple leagues is a good idea? Wouldn't a 31-team league be best off if it got all of you and not half of you?

Well technically, no probably not. Thankfully the league I run is pretty sound. Going on year 13, without many bumps along the way. If you set up a good league from the start things SHOULD be smooth sailing, hence the reason for this topic and getting feedback. Again, even if I didnt run any other leagues I'd want a few commissioners for a league this size - the more teams, the more issues may be present with disagreements, rule changes, etc. over time.

It would take some dedication and a great group of people to make it fun and successful.

[fungchen3]

P7 and others have a great handle on logistics, so I'll shelf that, but add what I can. I commission 3 leagues - 2 that are serious, 1 that has been around since 1994. Here's some random points that I would like to share, based on my experience of playing fantasy longer than some of you have been alive ...

A.) Make your points mirror the value of NHL players as much as possible in the big picture. D point bonuses are a must for me. In my main league (the 1994 one) our scoring is as follows:

FORWARDS: G=2, A=1, PP/SH =+1, GWG=+2, HAT=+1, SHOOTOUT G=1
DEFENSEMEN: G=3, A=2, PP/SH =+1, GWG=+2, HAT=+1, SHOOTOUT G=1

The top-10 skaters in my league finished:

1. McDavid, 176
2. MacKinnon, 173
3. Ovechkin, 172
4. Malkin, 171
5. Hall, 163
6. Carlson, 163 (D)
7. Kucherov, 162
8. Burns, 156 (D)
9. Gostisbehere, 154 (D)
10. Laine, 153

That list of 10 includes 3-4 serious contenders for the Hart trophy. The Art Ross winner, the Rocket winner, the 2 highest goal scorers, the NHL's 2 highest scoring defensemen, etc. Pretty good composition if you ask me.

... of course, that's without muddying with waters with other stats, etc. You can tweak to your liking, my point is: Make sure defensemen have adequate value. There have been years Karlsson and Burns have be top performers in my league, during their monster years, and rightfully so. You never want a player like Roman Josi being drafted in the 30th round, behind a player like Jeff Skinner, as example.

B.) Add fun little twists like "team captains." In the league I've referenced ^, teams designate one forward as "CAPTAIN" and that forward earns "D Points" (G=3, A=2, etc.) Captains can't be switched during the season, only in the offseason. However, (2) "alternates" are named at the beginning of the season, and one of them can fill in as captain in the event of injury, so your team is never without a captain.

C.) Make it a pride league where the monetary winnings are secondary. Money makes people do weird things. The winner of my 1994 league gets $50. That's peanuts. But, they get their name engraved on a large trophy that has already graduated to a 2nd large base. They also get to keep the trophy for a year like the real Cup. This is a keep-44, large league with farm teams and all. Sometimes a GM will go for a full on rebuild that could take 5-6 years and they are committed to the process and love every second of it. Why? Because they take pride in their outline and process, and aren't taking a financial hit.

D.) Have the "right" GMs in the league, for the right reasons. If a chunk of GM's are happy-go-lucky hockey buds who are wanting one thing, and another chunk are sharks looking to take advantage of people, it will not end well. Set GM expectations and select the right peeps or you'll end up with an ulcer or PayPalling a lot of refunds.

E.) Emotionally engage your GM's and get them involved. Have everyone secretly vote for "GM of the year" (can't vote for yourself). Have them help choose division names (perhaps after hockey legends, etc.). Have fun awards and the end of the year. For example, you could have the "Paul Coffey Award" and the GM with the highest scoring defenseman gets a $5 gift card to Starbucks for a free "Coffey" etc. Make it fun.

F.) Keep it simple(ish). I know I might be in the minority here, but being an old school pooler, I got used to running leagues where I had to compile the team stats with a pencil and paper, after reading the box scores in the newspaper - literally. I think there a reason why Fantasy Football is embraced by so many - it's fairly cut-and-dry. People have jobs, careers, mortgages, families, etc. Making fantasy hockey a full-time job, where you're studying every possible stat on the score sheet is a nightmare, at least to me. Not to mention, stats like +/- are terrible in real life, let alone fantasy.

This is just some food for thought that I wanted to share.