League Expansion Advice will rep

[FFleming5]

We are thinking about expanding our league to include 2 new managers... For the league in signature... Does anyone have advice or experience on league expansion?

The proposal is for the current managers to each leave 2 players exposed. Each new manager will choose 1 from each team giving each manager a total of 5 players. The new manager will then select 4 players each from the free agent pool of players. Then we will all draft as normal. New manager draft position has not yet been determined.

[evans334]

We did an expansion draft in my LOEGM pool and we just had them draft from the remaining FA pool.
We were 8 teams with 9 keepers adding 2 more teams.

Took 2 to 3 years and some saavy moves for expansion teams to be competitive, but we've got pretty good parity in our league now.
Our FA pool may have had a bit more to off than yours does, but they were still able to put together decent teams.

Drafting from other teams is a good way to kick start them to being competitive and ensuring they'll stick around, but personally if I was one of those GM's getting a player taken away I wouldn't be happy.

[DocMcPuffin]

We are expanding to one more GM this year as well. League stats in sig. Normally, we expose 5 players, one must be a goalie. We submit our list in September prior to rookie/waiver draft in October. The new GM will then submit his list a few days before the draft. He will then pick 1st and 2nd off the waiver and last in the 1st round of the rookie draft. He then picks first in all other rounds of the rookie/waiver draft. In the end, we will have 18 skaters and 3 goalies. Pretty simple. The poor GM gets some pretty weak players to start but there is always the posibility of him making a deal to unprotect this guy or to not pick this guy and so on.

[PenguinHunter]

It largely depends on how competitive you want the team to be in the first years.

If each team is getting to pick 5 players total... then they would be starting with 5 players, So I would suggest that each existing team only gets to protect 5 players. Then after the expansion draft each team both old and new have their '5 players'

I would suggest that you do not do this this year... but give everyone a full year to prepare for the expansion draft. But I understand that is easier said then done.

[Savvy1982]

We are finishing up our last round of Expansion in my Dynasty league: 9 Founding teams that began it 7 years ago, and we will add our 18th (and final) team this year.

Your system seems fair, getting the 9th or 10th best player off each team gives your new Expansion teams some real Keepers to build their team around, and they should be competitive within 3-4 years.

We do ours differently of course, being a Full Keeper, but your system seems fair as well. The issue I would be worried about was WHEN you brought the idea of Expansion to the other GMs in your league. If I had just spent all season condensing my talent into 10 uber-Keepers, only to find out I’d be losing two of them AFTER the trade deadline, I might quit the league.

[Grapes]

On a much smaller scale we increased our teams from 6 to 8. Prior to expansion our keeper number was 3.
Adding 2 teams and protecting only 3 X 6 players = 18, the draft pool was very good.

Previously our bottom 3 teams went into a weighted lottery to determine draft order. When we added the 2 expansion teams we added them to the weighted lottery.

[anthonybeaty]

What's the goal of the expansion? Is it to attract new managers? Is it to ensure existing managers don't leave? Is it to give the new manager a chance to be competitive ASAP?

[Moses]

What's the goal of the expansion? Is it to attract new managers? Is it to ensure existing managers don't leave? Is it to give the new manager a chance to be competitive ASAP?

Good question!

[Magicstew]

Good question!

Also is this a money league? guys may not want to put down $ if they are not going to be competitive for a while.

[butch]

moving from 10 to 12 teams is a reasonable expansion number considering the roster size listed in your sig @ 25 spots / max 3 goalies .

you might have to dig a bit deeper for those depth types but the league will adapt.

[als_revenge]

I find the OP to be ambiguous. Are you leaving two players exposed from your 25 man list, or 2 players exposed from your keep 10? If it's the former, then new GM's teams will be ridiculously terrible. I'd also consider doing something to ensure new teams can get a somewhat decent goalie. If none are exposed or available in FA, then it can take forever to develop one.

At the end of the day, the key question is: how many years do you want these people to be at the bottom?

[Moses]

At the end of the day, the key question is: how many years do you want these people to be at the bottom?

Yup - exactly.

[stevegamer]

We are thinking about expanding our league to include 2 new managers... For the league in signature... Does anyone have advice or experience on league expansion?

The proposal is for the current managers to each leave 2 players exposed. Each new manager will choose 1 from each team giving each manager a total of 5 players. The new manager will then select 4 players each from the free agent pool of players. Then we will all draft as normal. New manager draft position has not yet been determined.

I've dealt with expansion of leagues in all 4 major sports. My dynasty hockey league expanded twice, and the rules were slightly different because we added 1 team, then 2.

The way I see your set up is you roster 25, keeping 10. What you have currently proposed (if I understand right) is still keep 10, protect 13 more from expansion teams to go back into the FA pool next year, and then leave the expansion teams 2 guys to pick from. We know there are going to be teams with crappy end of the bench guys. Some may be so crappy that FA has better stuff, and you don't want either of the 2 guys you left unprotected. They also start with 9 keepers, not 10, 4 of whom are currently in the FA pool. If that was the proposed setup, there's a 0% chance I'd join the league if money was involved. One can just join a new league, or find one with less draconian expansion rules. Your current 10 teams can easily freeze out the top 20 goalies ( or more, depending on draft order) from the expansion teams.

Your league seems to like the idea of teams submitting protected lists, so how about this:

Existing teams must make 5 players available, with one player available per position OR a total of 7 players available if they choose to not make someone available at a position. This insures the expansion teams can at least find a goalie or maybe two. It gives the existing teams a non-trivial decision as opposed to "Who are my two worst guys?" Each existing team still can only lose 1 player. Allow the incoming teams to select up to 5 guys from free agency, instead of 4, or they can just take extra picks at the end of next year's draft, like they'd have to do if they were a player short going into the draft. I'd also allow them to make trades for keeper players, giving up picks in next year's draft once the order is figured out, but I can understand not allowing that if they are unknowns.

[The Comish]

I've managed and been a part of a fair number of expansion drafts and my biggest takeaway was to mock the crap out of it before setting the expansion rules (number of protected players, etc.).

My biggest coup was merging two similar money leagues (limited keeper) I was running with a little more than half the owners participating in both leagues. That one was tough to organize because if you owned a team in each league, you had to choose which team to go forward with, letting go entirely of the other team and the rights to those players. The hardest part was with the players that were "owned" by two owners after people chose their teams. I essentially brokered trades (or compensation from the FA pool finding equivalent players) for double-owned players. It was the coolest, most ambitious and difficult thing I've done as a commish. Sadly, that league is now dead, but it lasted nearly 20 years.

Best of luck with your expansion. Great idea, coming here asking for advice/ideas. There are some very smart fantasy hockey minds patrolling these boards.

[FFleming5]

Thank you for all the replies. The key takeaway that I've proposed is voting on it now and waiting until the 2019 draft to implement. Managers have all already made moves with the hope to impact the 2018 draft and this is too short of notice to change up the game now. This advice has been very helpful... I posted and had to stay away from the boards b/c 1st I was on baby duty and then I was with some friends celebrating St. Patricks Day.

As for reasons why to expand. Our league is very successful so far and with the exception of one underperforming manager, have a very competitive pool. We are looking to drive increased competition and to also drive increased roster depth. Also, our league was originally 12 a few years back, however, when we went to a keeper from a straight redraft league, 2 of the guys backed out... now they desperately want back in. So these managers are well known to our pool already and understand the scoring rules and player values. With 12 teams, the top 300 players will be owned, rather than the top 250.

Now, I don't seem to understand the confusion on the draft rules. We each currently have 10 keeper players, the rest are all redraft players. So if each manager leaves 2 players exposed, it will be from our keeper lists meaning that each new GM would receive 5 lower end keeper players from each existing manager's roster. The remaining 4 picks would be chosen out of the remaining FA pool. Giving every manager 9 players or 9 potential keepers. Then the normal draft would commence.

Chances are that if drafted well the new managers could be somewhat competitive in the first year w/o likely a chance at winning, however, could be in a good spot after 1 or 2 seasons depending on how their drafts go and players develop.