3rd grade baseball team raffling off AR-15 in Missouri.

[2014olympicgold]

The age thing has always been a little weird to me anyway. When you are 18, you are old enough to vote and old enough to die for your country serving in the military, but you aren't old enough to buy a beer... That's goofy to me.

Rylant

the drinking age is kinda goofy in Ontario I guess too. Old enough to serve a beer at 18, but gotta be 19 to drink.

[saucelife90]

The argument of mental health is weird to me. If someone has a mental health issue, how did he get the gun? Like this kid was in therapy right? Shouldn't this be a flag for the system?

I don't really get why people need an AR-15, besides the fact they want it. It's like, I want to have 90% alcohol, but the gov't doesn't allow me. I also don't get the argument of how someone needs to be 21yrs old in the states to buy a beer, but can buy an AR-15 at 18. The ages don't line up.

The thing with mental health is tough... If I go purchase a gun, and pass all the background checks etc, then have something traumatic happen that causes me to lose my mind I would still be in possession of that weapon.


Also, Do we really need vehicles that go faster than 120?

Just playing devil's advocate

[2014olympicgold]

The thing with mental health is tough... If I go purchase a gun, and pass all the background checks etc, then have something traumatic happen that causes me to lose my mind I would still be in possession of that weapon.


Also, Do we really need vehicles that go faster than 120?

Just playing devil's advocate

Specific to this kid tho, I do believe he was involved with therapy when he bought the gun.

The argument against a vehicle going over 120km/h is odd to me because they aren't designed as a weapon, and aren't involved in nearly as many attacks. Accidents are different than this, but I do get the flaw.

[Ingolo]

The thing with mental health is tough... If I go purchase a gun, and pass all the background checks etc, then have something traumatic happen that causes me to lose my mind I would still be in possession of that weapon.


Also, Do we really need vehicles that go faster than 120?

Just playing devil's advocate

In Ontario, if the police receive reason to believe that a gun owner is mentally unstable, they can come and confiscate them all until the person has been given a clean bill of health. Happened to a friend of mine a couple years ago when he was going through some rough times. It's what I see as one of the benefits of a database of gun owners. It's not just a matter of doing a background check, but keeping a database of those who own weapons helps keep things handled. I know it's expensive, and people in Ontario still have nightmares about the cost of the long-gun registry, but law-enforcement officials are huge advocates of it (sure helps if a cop knows there's 10 guns in a house when they respond to a call), and it just seems like a simple step to take in a world of nearly unlimited digital storage.

Not saying I have all the answers, it just definitely seems like gun control is a problem that lots of people in the US government like to mention briefly, and then never pass legislation on. Better to do something than nothing.

[BreadManPanarin]

Can't help but giggle at the thought that there are at least a few super Pro-Gun lurkers watching this thread right now, seething and foaming, and trying to decide whether they want to out themselves as ignorant for believing that guns are not a very real problem in America.

[Ingolo]

Can't help but giggle at the thought that there are at least a few super Pro-Gun lurkers watching this thread right now, seething and foaming, and trying to decide whether they want to out themselves as ignorant for believing that guns are not a very real problem in America.

Lashing out in anger is normally the last ditch response of someone who knows just how wrong their position is. First we have to let them deflect and blame things like video games, the media, and good guys not having guns... Oh wait, POTUS did all that this morning during his "listening session" that the deputy head of the NRA was across the table from him for.

[donions]

This is actually the entire issue right here. The sheer amount of money the GOP received from the NRA is staggering, in the hundreds of millions every two-year election cycle. The NRA is going to do what they always do after a school shooting, they will entrench and wait for the outrage to peter out. Until that funding is declared to be corruption, which is what it is, nothing of import will change. This is true of the American political system as a whole. All people interested in reform of any kind need to drop what they are doing and immediately concentrate on campaign-finance reform. Until Citizens United (brought to you by Steve Bannon) is overturned, bribery is legal in politics.

Is there somewhere that has solid info on NRA campaign donations, not doubting your statement, just having a hard time nailing down the actual numbers.

T no country with 18 mass shootings in 45 days has a legitimate excuse to not have gun control.

This is a false statement. 18 mass shootings in 45 days? Uhh no.

Can't help but giggle at the thought that there are at least a few super Pro-Gun lurkers watching this thread right now, seething and foaming, and trying to decide whether they want to out themselves as ignorant for believing that guns are not a very real problem in America.

Im definitely not a gun nut, I dont own a gun. Just disappointed how this subject always falls into 1 of 2 categories, people shouting "TAKE ALL THE GUNS", and people shouting "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS"
There has to be a middle ground. I think most here recognize that, but the words some are choosing dont reflect that.

Oh and once again, the mainstream media absolutely sucks.

[lucafen4]

tighter gun control, background checks.. yes these things will help. But everyone in 'Murica is missing the Titanic on this one. Tighter gun control will make it harder to obtain a weapon. Background check policy 'should' make it easier to remove weapons from unstable owners (I say should because there will be states, counties that refuse to enforce this based on 2nd amendment - regardless)

But who's digging into these questions. Why are school mass shootings so unique to USA? Why is the USA the only country in the world discussing arming their teachers? What is wrong with this society that one a month is now expected? I need to reflect on the culture crisis our country has created, Where is the mirror?

A motivated individual will obtain weapons to carry out their end game. There are much MUCH larger societal issues underlying everything that leads up to putting a weapon in the hands of a teenage who has this uncontrollable urge to murder his peers. Where's the research on this? Where's the policy requests to build up a social net to prevent this at an earlier age through programming, community involvement, engagement and prevent isolation?

This is a social issue more than a gun issue. The gun is just the end result of all the societal failures that precipitated the final act.

[BreadManPanarin]

Im definitely not a gun nut, I dont own a gun. Just disappointed how this subject always falls into 1 of 2 categories, people shouting "TAKE ALL THE GUNS", and people shouting "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" There has to be a middle ground. I think most here recognize that, but the words some are choosing dont reflect that..

Very, VERY few people shout "TAKE ALL THE GUNS"... that is definitely a minority opinion. Many of us want to significantly limit access to the ones that are most deadly. The problem is that there are also many people who don't want any additional restrictions whatsoever. How can you find a middle ground with someone who feels that way?

[donions]

Very, VERY few people shout "TAKE ALL THE GUNS"... that is definitely a minority opinion. Many of us want to significantly limit access to the ones that are most deadly. The problem is that there are also many people who don't want any additional restrictions whatsoever. How can you find a middle ground with someone who feels that way?

Ive seen plenty of people on CNN/MSNBC, and verified people on twitter advocating for a gun confiscation program and abolishing the 2nd amendment. People in this very thread were saying, "Take all the guns".

[BreadManPanarin]

This is a social issue more than a gun issue. The gun is just the end result of all the societal failures that precipitated the final act.

Regardless, it is still magnitudes easier to enter a building and kill a dozen or more people with a .223 / 5.56 caliber semi automatic rifle with 30 round magazines than it is to do so with any other method. Knife? C'mon... Bomb? Sure, go on Google and try to research how to make one and then see how quickly you end up on the Govt's radar. People may point to recent mass murders that were carried out with a vehicle, but that isn't a viable way to conduct a mass murder in a school or other indoor / restricted access venue.

Make it more difficult to access the deadlier firearms (higher caliber, larger magazine, etc.) and SUCCESSFUL mass murders will decrease. If a kid goes into a school with a shotgun, 9mm pistol, or bolt action rifle it is practically assured that he will be less successful than with a semi auto rifle with a 30 round clip. Anyone who disputes that is just out of their mind.

The other problem here besides guns and mental illness is publicity. Every shooter gets their name, photo and life story publicized throughout the media like crazy after a shooting. The best policy would be to acknowledge that a shooting happened, but give the shooter absolutely no personal publicity. Treat it like when a minor is a victim of a crime. Refer to them as "Perpetrator #1" and bury any chance they have at what they consider "glory".

With a better grip on mental health, significant reduction in accessibility of the more deadly variants of firearms, and a decrease in publicity for successful shooters, I would be absolutely amazed if a significant reduction in both the frequency and success rate of these crimes did not result.

- - - Updated - - -

Ive seen plenty of people on CNN/MSNBC, and verified people on twitter advocating for a gun confiscation program and abolishing the 2nd amendment. People in this very thread were saying, "Take all the guns".

OK, sure. You have seen people. What percent of the population do you think that is? Less than 5% at best?

[donions]

Doing a little light research solely off the replies in this thread, its about 20%.

[BreadManPanarin]

Donig a little light research solely off the replies in this thread, its about 20%.

Somehow I seriously doubt that small sample size of individuals weighing in on this thread are representative of the population of the United States.

Any comment on my other ideas above...?

[donions]

Sorry I didnt have time to conduct a nation wide poll.

I 100% agree with most of what you outlined. Especially the media giving such publicity to the shooters, when its proven time and time again these are copycat crimes.
And the mental health angle is huge, I dont know about this Florida killer, but I know a lot of the mass shooters in the past were on anti-depressants. I know he had made threats and the FBI and Police had credible knowledge about the threats....and did nothing.

[lucafen4]

Regardless, it is still magnitudes easier to enter a building and kill a dozen or more people with a .223 / 5.56 caliber semi automatic rifle with 30 round magazines than it is to do so with any other method. Knife? C'mon... Bomb? Sure, go on Google and try to research how to make one and then see how quickly you end up on the Govt's radar. People may point to recent mass murders that were carried out with a vehicle, but that isn't a viable way to conduct a school shooting.

Make it more difficult to access the deadlier firearms (higher caliber, larger magazine, etc.) and SUCCESSFUL mass murders will decrease. If a kid goes into a school with a shotgun, 9mm pistol, or bolt action rifle it is practically assured that he will be less successful than with a semi auto rifle with a 30 round clip. Anyone who disputes that is just out of their mind.

The other problem here besides guns and mental illness is publicity. Every shooter gets their name, photo and life story publicized throughout the media like crazy after a shooting. The best policy would be to acknowledge that a shooting happened, but give the shooter absolutely no personal publicity. Treat it like when a minor is a victim of a crime. Refer to them as "Perpetrator #1" and bury any chance they have at what they consider "glory".

With a better grip on mental health, significant reduction in accessibility of the more deadly variants of firearms, and a decrease in publicity for successful shooters, I would be absolutely amazed if a significant reduction in both the frequency and success rate of these crimes did not occur.

- - - Updated - - -



OK, sure. You have seen people. What percent of the population do you think that is? Less than 5% at best?

None of that actually resolves any underlying issue that creates an environment for this to happen in the first place. Maybe they don't go shoot up schools... maybe? but will it remove the need of these individuals to act out in some other violent manner?

If a foundation is rotted, it doesn't matter what you build on top of it... it will eventually collapse. You need to tear it all down and fix it from the ground up, not just take off a layer.