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Thread: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swels Stewart View Post
    If this is a joke, it's in bad taste. If not, it's a pretty ugly sentiment for the mods to let stand.
    It's been deleted, and your post was edited for quoting it.
    @SmittysRant

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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Yes, do not ensure racial representation, but at the same time, don't allow the defense the opportunity to filter the jury this way. I am also very curious of the race percentages in the population of the area from which the jury was selected. I honestly do not know what those percentages are. If it turned out that the Native population and Minority population in the area is 3 percent, then having an all-white jury might be more reasonable just because it is mathematically quite possible and I might re-think my stance. However, if the Minority population in the area is 30 percent, having an all white jury is highly unlikely mathematically. I also understand the necessity of the peremptory, however using it in the manner is which the defense did should not be allowed.

    Rylant
    It is and always has been a matter of defense strategy so as to give the accused the best chance to stand trial. I definitely understand what you mean and it is a great discussion to have, I just don't know how you prevent the defense from excluding those witnesses without fettering with their right to exclude without reasons for a certain number of potential jurors. If you tell them they can't exclude all first nations, then you are basically ensuring representation.. I honestly think the best way is to encourage and provide significant incentive to potential jurors and enhance the turnout so as to make it mathematically impossible for native jurors to be excluded. Sometimes, the best form of justice is when people stand together to put the system and justice in their own hands. If they believe it strongly enough, they will do it. I mean this in the democratic sense, not the mob mentality sense.
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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    I don't understand why people cant have a civilized conversation about topics going on in the world without slinging crap at each other, or just acting like ignorant idiots. These threads always seem to invoke BS between members every friggin time.

    Every time I see one of these threads, it's just a matter of time before a reported post comes behind it.

    If people can't come here and have a civilized conversation, maybe stop posting these threads all together.
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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Damnit, what did I miss?

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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I don't understand why people cant have a civilized conversation about topics going on in the world without slinging crap at each other, or just acting like ignorant idiots. These threads always seem to invoke BS between members every friggin time.

    Every time I see one of these threads, it's just a matter of time before a reported post comes behind it.

    If people can't come here and have a civilized conversation, maybe stop posting these threads all together.
    In all honesty, Axeman, I think it's far more worthwhile to expel the uncivilized posters than it is to censor the topics of conversation. Punish the culpable, not the whole class. This is first and foremost a fantasy hockey site, so such discussions are kind off kilter.. That said, this is also a community and one that has policed itself quite effectively over all my years here. I much prefer we censor the constituency of the club, rather than the topics its members discuss. If one proves he or she cannot be in this kind of club, then it's time to go. Free speech may be a right, but membership to a club sure as hell isn't.

    I'm glad for those who could discuss this topic with civility. I found those posts enlightening.
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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentzero View Post
    In all honesty, Axeman, I think it's far more worthwhile to expel the uncivilized posters than it is to censor the topics of conversation. Punish the culpable, not the whole class. This is first and foremost a fantasy hockey site, so such discussions are kind off kilter.. That said, this is also a community and one that has policed itself quite effectively over all my years here. I much prefer we censor the constituency of the club, rather than the topics its members discuss. If one proves he or she cannot be in this kind of club, then it's time to go. Free speech may be a right, but membership to a club sure as hell isn't.

    I'm glad for those who could discuss this topic with civility. I found those posts enlightening.
    I have zero issues with people discussing these topics in the Lounge when done respectfully. Unfortunately, these topics also bring out the worst in some folks and these threads always get out of hand. No fear on the policing though.
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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I have zero issues with people discussing these topics in the Lounge when done respectfully. Unfortunately, these topics also bring out the worst in some folks and these threads always get out of hand. No fear on the policing though.
    Not sure what the deleted posts contained but this thread has been very insightful, especially AZ and Nehithaw’s posts.

    Assuming a thread is going to get out of hand and waiting to add a shiny lock isn’t a good approach.

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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    We need to end the Indian Act. One class of citizen in Canada. Canadians. Are we going to wait 100 years, 300 years, 1000 years? When natives are subject to the same laws as the rest of the residents of this great nation then they can heal. That is my opinion.
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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by renello View Post
    We need to end the Indian Act. One class of citizen in Canada. Canadians. Are we going to wait 100 years, 300 years, 1000 years? When natives are subject to the same laws as the rest of the residents of this great nation then they can heal. That is my opinion.
    Anyone who has the slightest knowledge about the implementation of Residential Schools and how First Nations families were destroyed for generations knows that your statement is naive at best.

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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoelace View Post
    Anyone who has the slightest knowledge about the implementation of Residential Schools and how First Nations families were destroyed for generations knows that your statement is naive at best.
    OK, so using that logic we also need a separate legal systems for women, blacks, Jews, Chinese (basically slaves to build our railroads), Japanese (concentration camps in Canada, yes that happened), Irish, Italians, and anyone else who has had oppression in their history.
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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by renello View Post
    We need to end the Indian Act. One class of citizen in Canada. Canadians. Are we going to wait 100 years, 300 years, 1000 years? When natives are subject to the same laws as the rest of the residents of this great nation then they can heal. That is my opinion.
    Just curious, when you have time....what laws are natives not subject to that the rest of the residents of this great nation are subject to?
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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Different tax treatment on many items and different levels of government. Different hunting and fishing rights, like no closed season hunting at night with spotlight and rifle, netting and spearing spawning fish. It is current law to give extra leniency to natives in sentencing for crimes. Different educational treatment, natives given preference for school entrance and acceptance. Requirement in most government department to hire natives. The requirement of private business to hire natives. Dual citizenship with U.S.
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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.


    Good article on Trudeau's ill advised comments and actions in regard to this case.

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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    Quote Originally Posted by renello View Post
    Different tax treatment on many items and different levels of government. Different hunting and fishing rights, like no closed season hunting at night with spotlight and rifle, netting and spearing spawning fish. It is current law to give extra leniency to natives in sentencing for crimes. Different educational treatment, natives given preference for school entrance and acceptance. Requirement in most government department to hire natives. The requirement of private business to hire natives. Dual citizenship with U.S.
    Its almost like they are attempting to make a token attempt to make good on treaty agreements which are enforceable by law and acknowledging the fact that for centuries the native people of the land were treated way worse than "women, blacks, Jews, Chinese (basically slaves to build our railroads), Japanese (concentration camps in Canada, yes that happened), Irish, Italians, and anyone else who has had oppression in their history". Did you realize that not all "indians" could vote until 1982? Nineteen ****ing eighty two. The Canadian govt openly and actively tried to assimilate us. Residential schools, bounties for scalps, banning of traditional ceremonies and customs. This is called genocide in modern times. We account for about 25% of all people in jail in Canada, but we only make up 3% of the people. You think that is because we are inherently bad or criminal people?

    I question the legitimacy of these threads on a fantasy hockey forum. I dont need to come here to read these completely uninformed comments. What good do political, religious or otherwise controversial threads have in this place? They only brew bad blood. I'm getting all pissed off because people here dont know what the **** they are talking about and how their words will affect others. Maybe people just dont care.

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    Default Re: Gerard Stanley Trial and Case.

    No worries Atomic. Some of my best friends are native and they figure the verdict in the Stanley case is fair. Every ethnic group has suffered at some point in the past, many continue to suffer today. There are currently many atrocities occurring worldwide. There are shifts in cultures, religions, governments over time. Yes natives had a rough ride but then they did the same to each other before Europeans arrived on the scene in numbers. Time to look forward and learn lessons from the past. The way to healing is to end the cycle of dependence. Aboriginals have been indoctrinated by their leadership into believing that they are entitled to be “maintained” in perpetuity by others. Let them establish indigenous sovereignty but on their own dime. Giving in to constant demands begets more demands. Extinguish all transfers and entitlements, let them make it, or not, on their own, and perhaps regain some measure of pride and self-respect. Reserves are ridiculous. Most have no economic basis for existence. The current structure is flawed. Individuals should own their homes and lands. Not be subject to whims of a chief.
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