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Thread: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I don't think Fleury loses his starting job next year and I also don't think he gets dealt. It think it was inevitable that Murray was going to be in Pittsburgh next season anyway, backing up up Fleury.

    Murray is having a damn fine run, but lots of young goalies have had fine runs in the past but the problem with young goalies is they can run hot and cold. Right now, Murray is the hot goalie.

    Fleury is the proven starter; they showed that when they gave him his shot in game five. That wasn't a pity start, they want him in there and wanted him to do well. It didn't work out and this just isn't the time of the year to let him work his game back.

    Why would they trade Fleury when they can have both he and Murray there next year. Next season is a whole different year and who knows what Matt Murray the Pens will get. They DO know what Fleury they will get; the same one they've had for years now and that's why they invested in him.
    Here's the thing. They don't really know what Fleury they will get (in the playoffs). And for the Pens, it's all about the playoffs. Sure he was good in the playoffs last year. Great even. That said, the Pens were playing a low-chance defensively managed form of hockey, which is going to make most goalies look pretty good. Their Achilles heel was scoring last playoffs, and it's always a trade off between prioritizing scoring and defending.

    At least 3 of the prior 5 years Fleury was a big part of the problem in the playoffs. Especially against the Flyers, the Pens just melted down. No ability to bounce back or stay mentally strong. This was both Fleury (imploding after a bad goal or two and losing a couple games each series) but also Malkin, Crosby, etc.

    I really like Murray's stability. He's calm. He might not have the same ability to absolutely steal games as does Fleury - but I'm not sure the Pens need that. They need a stable presence in net - so far so good. Ideally, of course, they'd have time to sort this out. But assuming expansion, they don't. If Murray takes the Pens all the way (knock on wood), (or if they make the Final and lose but it's not on Murray) they keep both next year and take a year to transition giving Murray 60% of the starts. They expose Fleury to the expansion draft such that it's win-win. If someone grabs Fleury, they have cap space to play with. If nobody does, they've got a reasonably priced veteran goalie to mentor Murray.
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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    fleury's gone.

    even if murray is overachieving now, i think he can still be, at worst, 90% as good as fleury next year. when you factor in age and cap savings, it's a no brainer. move fleury for a F/D to help the roster elsewhere, and sign a veteran backup for cheap (someone like Montoya). the Pens will always rely on their offense to win them games, Murray is good enough to allow them to continue that strategy.

    Fleury to Calgary makes a lot of sense...

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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by praba View Post
    fleury's gone.

    even if murray is overachieving now, i think he can still be, at worst, 90% as good as fleury next year. when you factor in age and cap savings, it's a no brainer. move fleury for a F/D to help the roster elsewhere, and sign a veteran backup for cheap (someone like Montoya). the Pens will always rely on their offense to win them games, Murray is good enough to allow them to continue that strategy.

    Fleury to Calgary makes a lot of sense...
    It may not make sense to Fleury, and Fleury has a limited NTC.

    (I will admit it makes sense for Calgary, tho.)


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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by Instant Karma View Post
    It may not make sense to Fleury, and Fleury has a limited NTC.

    (I will admit it makes sense for Calgary, tho.)
    If Fleury is told by Pittsburgh he's not the start, I'm betting he will accept a trade to just about anywhere that he will be an undisputed starter again. I don't see his NTC as a hangup for just about any team.

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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    If Fleury is told by Pittsburgh he's not the start, I'm betting he will accept a trade to just about anywhere that he will be an undisputed starter again. I don't see his NTC as a hangup for just about any team.
    anywhere but Carolina I'm guessing!


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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    To think Murray can take the reigns and run for a full 82game season as a starter I think is silly. But to say he hasn’t wrestled games away from Fleury is also silly.

    Murray and Fleury will likely split more starts, and I’m thinking Howard/Mrazek style.
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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Has Murray made Fleury available? --- no. he's 22 now, and an extremely small sample size to think he could be a starter for a full 82 game NHL season. They'll split next season and if murray seems capable Pit will let Fleury be available in the expansion draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by captaincrunch32 View Post
    Calgary could use a goalie. Could Fleury net Bennett, Hamilton and a 1-3 rounder?
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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgort View Post
    Has Murray made Fleury available? --- no. he's 22 now, and an extremely small sample size to think he could be a starter for a full 82 game NHL season. They'll split next season and if murray seems capable Pit will let Fleury be available in the expansion draft.
    Assuming this is possible. Fleury has a limited NMC stating he can't go to the minors and has to submit 12 teams he can be traded to.

    NHL has released NMC have to be protected in an expansion draft.

    NHL has released NTC will be available to be protected in the expansion draft.

    NHL has not clarified what the procedure will be with limited NMC in regards to the expansion draft. My impression is that Pittsburgh will have to protect Fleury and expose Murray, which would be stupid and therefore force Pittsburgh to trade Murray. That's really what this whole conversation is predicated on.

    Fleury is expendable because:

    A) An expansion draft would force Pittsburgh to protect MAF and expose Matt Murray, who would certainly get selected by an expansion team.

    B) Matt Murray has played well enough, and proved enough, not to mention having the pedigree from previous levels, to show that this run isn't a fluke and he can replace Fleury reasonably at a much cheaper cost.

    If "A" is not true, than "B" is irrelevant. I'm assuming this is the thinking anyone choosing to say "Yes Fleury is expendable" is using.

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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Assuming this is possible. Fleury has a limited NMC stating he can't go to the minors and has to submit 12 teams he can be traded to.

    NHL has released NMC have to be protected in an expansion draft.

    NHL has released NTC will be available to be protected in the expansion draft.

    NHL has not clarified what the procedure will be with limited NMC in regards to the expansion draft. My impression is that Pittsburgh will have to protect Fleury and expose Murray, which would be stupid and therefore force Pittsburgh to trade Murray. That's really what this whole conversation is predicated on.

    Fleury is expendable because:

    A) An expansion draft would force Pittsburgh to protect MAF and expose Matt Murray, who would certainly get selected by an expansion team.

    B) Matt Murray has played well enough, and proved enough, not to mention having the pedigree from previous levels, to show that this run isn't a fluke and he can replace Fleury reasonably at a much cheaper cost.

    If "A" is not true, than "B" is irrelevant. I'm assuming this is the thinking anyone choosing to say "Yes Fleury is expendable" is using.
    Totally didn't realize MAF had a NMC, but you say it is a Limited one, I wonder if that is Limited, but open to an Expansion draft.

    Even then, I doubt they get rid of MAF this off season, Murray only 22 and if he falters as a starter next year who do they turn too, Peter Budaj???

    - If Murray can show he can handle a 50/50 or 60/40 split with MAF next year then I bet they'll give Murray the reigns
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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgort View Post
    Totally didn't realize MAF had a NMC, but you say it is a Limited one, I wonder if that is Limited, but open to an Expansion draft.

    Even then, I doubt they get rid of MAF this off season, Murray only 22 and if he falters as a starter next year who do they turn too, Peter Budaj???

    - If Murray can show he can handle a 50/50 or 60/40 split with MAF next year then I bet they'll give Murray the reigns
    Sure that's definitely an option. But then you're trading "backup MAF" which probably gives you a lower return. Not to mention what Pittsburgh could do with an extra $6 mil in cap space next season.

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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    If Fleury is told by Pittsburgh he's not the start, I'm betting he will accept a trade to just about anywhere that he will be an undisputed starter again. I don't see his NTC as a hangup for just about any team.
    I'm not as sure about that as you are. Players tend to negotiate NTCs in order to control their own fate. Otherwise, why have one?

    BTW, I thought we established that Fleury doesn't have a NMC, just a limited NTC?

    EDIT: Nevermind, he does have a NMC. So I suppose the Penguins will be forced to protect him if he isn't traded before the expansion draft.


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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by Instant Karma View Post
    I'm not as sure about that as you are. Players tend to negotiate NTCs in order to control their own fate. Otherwise, why have one?

    BTW, I thought we established that Fleury doesn't have a NMC, just a limited NTC?

    EDIT: Nevermind, he does have a NMC. So I suppose the Penguins will be forced to protect him if he isn't traded before the expansion draft.
    Sure. So why is it automatically assumed he won't go to Calgary? Young team on the rise. I think it's pretty rare for a player to ultimately reject a trade to a team that wants him and choose to stay on a team that obviously doesn't. I think more often than not they are in place to prevent going to floundering teams with no future, or to prevent getting traded from one untenable situation to another. I don't see either of those situations in Calgary.

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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    if fleury is told by pittsburgh he's not the start, i'm betting he will accept a trade to just about anywhere that he will be an undisputed starter again. I don't see his ntc as a hangup for just about any team.
    Exactly!!!!!
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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgort View Post
    Has Murray made Fleury available? --- no. he's 22 now, and an extremely small sample size to think he could be a starter for a full 82 game NHL season. They'll split next season and if murray seems capable Pit will let Fleury be available in the expansion draft.
    While I can't disagree about the small sample size, he sure passes the eye test for me. Tall, Calm, confident, economy of movement, he's just everything you need in a goalie. He's been nothing but fantastic ever since turning pro:

    Career AHL: 72 gp, 45-20-2, 1.81, 0.936, 16 shutouts. AHL Playoffs: 9 gp, 4-4, 2.27, 0.926, 1 shutout

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    I agree with those who say that Fleury will be gone before any expansion draft - no way they expose Murray to that. This kid is legit and has the potential to be a top 5 goalie in the NHL.

    Love the depth of discussion here guys, awesome!

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    Default Re: Has Murray made Fleury expendable

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Sure. So why is it automatically assumed he won't go to Calgary? Young team on the rise. I think it's pretty rare for a player to ultimately reject a trade to a team that wants him and choose to stay on a team that obviously doesn't. I think more often than not they are in place to prevent going to floundering teams with no future, or to prevent getting traded from one untenable situation to another. I don't see either of those situations in Calgary.
    I'm not "automatically assuming" anything - that's the whole point. The only thing I might be assuming is that he may in fact invoke the terms of his NTC, which I don't consider to be an unreasonable assumption seeing that its something he negotiated into his contract to begin with.

    As to why Calgary might not be attractive to him : because it's in the West, mainly. Whether or not Calgary is a "young team on the rise", there aren't a whole lot of "old teams on the decline" amongst the current playoff crop in the West (except maybe for the Ducks). And Calgary isn't the only "young team on the rise", there's another one just in that same province that will go nameless.

    This means that making noise in the playoffs any time real soon would be a dubious proposition at best. (Sorry, anything can happen of course, but that's how I'd evaluate that move if I were him).

    The West is probably not where an over-30 goaltender wants to finish out his career if he wants another Cup run anytime soon, unless he either has no say in the matter or it's to a team that is already there or nearly there.

    The East on the other hand seems significantly more fluid in that regard.


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