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Thread: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    When Dave Cameron was the coach, Stone’s production was:
    55GP-21G-32A-53Pts-(+18)-8PIM-123SOG(2.24/game)-17.1S%-18:15AvgTOI.
    Just to show what he was like when the new coach came in.

    That’s a high Shooting%....
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgort View Post
    Done. I like random bets... I do not have many this year haha
    Cool. This has turned t to be a fun thread

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    When Dave Cameron was the coach, Stone’s production was:
    55GP-21G-32A-53Pts-(+18)-8PIM-123SOG(2.24/game)-17.1S%-18:15AvgTOI.
    Just to show what he was like when the new coach came in.

    That’s a high Shooting%....
    take away 9 goals and he's a 70 point player

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    Cool. This has turned t to be a fun thread

    - - - Updated - - -



    take away 9 goals and he's a 70 point player
    53pts-9G=44pts in 55games
    0.8PPG=65.6Pts/82games

    That’s with his ridiculous run. I’m pretty sure he had 24pts in the final 20games.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    53pts-9G=44pts in 55games
    0.8PPG=65.6Pts/82games

    That’s with his ridiculous run. I’m pretty sure he had 24pts in the final 20games.
    sorry take away 6 goals. 12% sh%. Sustainable.

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Question Ev.

    IF Stone is the elite, can't miss player (and I'm hoping that he is) you seem to be suggesting he is, I wonder why it took him so long to finally make the show. Rookie Season at 22? what stunted his ability to crack the Sens squad, which really isn't and hasn't been overly stocked with talent for the past few years?

    You're a die hard Sen's fan. Interested in your take. (Sorry if you already posted this earlier... but the question just popped into my mind now)

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    I also think that Stone is going to be great. However, I am not sure he will be able to live up to Big EV's ridiculously biased level of expectations...

    Rylant

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    Karlsson is his elite offensive teammate and turris is very good. And if Hoffman continues to shine they have a very good goal scorer to pass to, or even Ryan could play with them one day.

    I drafted stone in my roto league but got him late. I agree he's better for a points only but he's still valuable for blocks and especially plus minus if you have those. Also I don't see why he won't get good ppp, he will be on the 1st unit all year.
    But when you talk about consistent 70 point guys, they usually either are surrounded by elite talent, or the coach plays the stink out of them (including PP time). The Sens roll three solid lines, and balance out PP time quite a bit, so Stone simply doesn't fit into either of those categories. Yet. But like I said, the potential is there, and if guys like Turris, Hoff, Z-bad, Ceci, Ryan can find the next level then it's totally realistic for Stone to become a 70 point threat every year.

    The +/- should be solid, I agree, but I don't like relying on +/- as a consistent stat. And yes he does block 20-30 more times than the average forward, but I'm not sure that's enough to give him much of a value boost.

    I'm not really disagreeing with you. I love him as a player; he's a treat to watch. And I like the 70 point upside. I just want to quell the hype for those roto GMs out there, and I think a lot will have to go right for Stone to hit 70 this year.
    16 Team Keeper League. Head-to-Head. Daily moves. Keep 10. Roster 20. Keepers in Bold
    Positions: 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 2F, 5D, 1Skt, 2G, 4 Bench
    Skaters: G, A, PPP, PIM, SOG, HITS, BLKS, FOW Goalies: W, GAA, SV%

    C: MacKinnon, Couturier, Eriksson Ek, McCann (LW), Cizikas, Carrick
    LW: Kaprizov, J.T. Miller (C), J. Robertson, Colton (C)
    RW: Perron (LW), T. Moore
    D: Carlson, Ekblad, Letang, Dumba, Lindell, Siegenthaler
    G: Hellebuyck, Vejmelka

    Prospects: Turcotte, Raty, Holtz, N. Robertson, M. Bourque, Lundkvist, Soderstrom, Sandin, Addison

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    FIFTEEN YEARS of history would suggest that "special players" don't end up as 22+ year old rookies. I'll take 15 years of history over gut instincts any day.

    All this talk of Stone being a "special" player comes across like a mom who thinks junior is "special" and should skip 1st grade because he arranged his cheerios one morning in a way that happened to spell a seven letter word.
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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    Question Ev.

    IF Stone is the elite, can't miss player (and I'm hoping that he is) you seem to be suggesting he is, I wonder why it took him so long to finally make the show. Rookie Season at 22? what stunted his ability to crack the Sens squad, which really isn't and hasn't been overly stocked with talent for the past few years?

    You're a die hard Sen's fan. Interested in your take. (Sorry if you already posted this earlier... but the question just popped into my mind now)
    he was a late round pick who played all his junior years and he had to work on his skating in order to become the player he is. He developed in the AHL and showed his flashes in the NHL. In his first pro year the sens had Alfie and Siofverberg on the right wing in the top six along wits zibanejad who played wing as well. He also had an injury in 13-14, so if that didn't happen he would not have been a rookie last year

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    To say he will get 70pts MINIMUM I think is the reason why people are not agreeing. I think 60-65 is his range, and with good puck luck he can go higher. The run all the players made in the last 50games was a bit ridiculous. To expect Stone, Kalrsson, and everyone else to maintain their performance through the final portion of the season is not a safe way to think.

    I’d hamper any production in the final 20games to about 70%-80% of what they actually accomplished, to be generous. So this is my thinking (odd I know)….

    First 35games, stone had 29pts (0.83ppg).
    Last 20 games, stone had 24pts (1.2ppg)
    Finished the final 55games, he had 53pts (0.96ppg)

    Keep the first 29pts/35games that’s what he should be doing roughly.
    24pts*0.70(0.80) = 17-19pts in the final 20games.
    47pts in 55games = 0.85ppg = 70.07272727272pts/82games.

    My thinking is IF he sustains his Dave Cameron production, he could get 70pts. COULD. But to say he will get 70pts for sure, that’s a stretch.

    That’s just my thinking on how to kind of hamper the results of Stone’s first season production. I won’t listen to Karlsson was this and that in the final section of the season because it’s Karlsson, we’ve seen he can push 70pts by a defenseman, and he still looked sluggish/less himself at the beginning of the season.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by RizzeeDizzee View Post
    FIFTEEN YEARS of history would suggest that "special players" don't end up as 22+ year old rookies. I'll take 15 years of history over gut instincts any day.

    All this talk of Stone being a "special" player comes across like a mom who thinks junior is "special" and should skip 1st grade because he arranged his cheerios one morning in a way that happened to spell a seven letter word.
    so because a player plays all his junior years and then takes two AHL years to make it means he can't be special? Your theory is pretty bad.

    Look at a player everyone has a boner for, Tyler Johnson. What's the difference here? He was a rookie at 23. He had even less points than stone. Look at nyquist who was older as a rookie than stone. You're looking for a trend to back your opinion because you haven't watched stone at all.

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    I've already explained why your analysis is bullshit RD. Stone is not even remotely comparable to guys like boyes or Ryder, he's much more talented and complete. That is literally all you have said this whole time, you keep spewing the names boyes and Ryder like that matters at all when discussing this player. You don't have any other arguments to stand on. Oh are the one who can't see reality.

    I can can tell you have never watched stone for more than a couple of games in your life, rizee. You will b dead wrong and it's very comical to people who know what stone can do.

    I kmow now talent and I know what I'm talking about. I know stone more than you do. I saw what was coming in his first NHL game when he came into he playoffs as a rookie and immediately made an impact on the game winning goal against the Rangers.

    It has nothing to do with me being a fan. I'm not calling for Hoffman to score 70 am I?

    You would be extremely extremely foolish to doubt that mark stone can and will be a 70 point player in his career. To me if yo ant see that in stone, then I know you don't have the eye for the game. That simple. This is a player who had dominated every level he has played at and is showing no reasons why he can't continue to dominate in the nhl. Two assists already last night.
    If I professed to have an "eye for the game" I'd be a scout, not a fantasy hockey columnist. Where's your column btw?

    But I digress - winning in fantasy hockey means going by the numbers first and foremost. Is there room for judgment and personal preference? Of course, but not when the numbers paint such a diametrically opposing picture.

    These forums are here for everyone to comment, but when I, as someone who spends hours each weeks writing and research players for two weekly columns, feel like someone is letting personal preference lead people down a path that cannot be reconciled with data I'll take it upon myself to speak up about it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    so because a player plays all his junior years and then takes two AHL years to make it means he can't be special? Your theory is pretty bad.

    Look at a player everyone has a boner for, Tyler Johnson. What's the difference here? He was a rookie at 23. He had even less points than stone. Look at nyquist who was older as a rookie than stone. You're looking for a trend to back your opinion because you haven't watched stone at all.
    Nyqvist is being covered in next week's cage match FWIW - so stay tuned for the sobering reality about him. Johnson already scored 70 points last I checked, and didn't have 60+ as a rookie.
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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    To say he will get 70pts MINIMUM I think is the reason why people are not agreeing. I think 60-65 is his range, and with good puck luck he can go higher. The run all the players made in the last 50games was a bit ridiculous. To expect Stone, Kalrsson, and everyone else to maintain their performance through the final portion of the season is not a safe way to think.

    I’d hamper any production in the final 20games to about 70%-80% of what they actually accomplished, to be generous. So this is my thinking (odd I know)….

    First 35games, stone had 29pts (0.83ppg).
    Last 20 games, stone had 24pts (1.2ppg)
    Finished the final 55games, he had 53pts (0.96ppg)

    Keep the first 29pts/35games that’s what he should be doing roughly.
    24pts*0.70(0.80) = 17-19pts in the final 20games.
    47pts in 55games = 0.85ppg = 70.07272727272pts/82games.

    My thinking is IF he sustains his Dave Cameron production, he could get 70pts. COULD. But to say he will get 70pts for sure, that’s a stretch.

    That’s just my thinking on how to kind of hamper the results of Stone’s first season production. I won’t listen to Karlsson was this and that in the final section of the season because it’s Karlsson, we’ve seen he can push 70pts by a defenseman, and he still looked sluggish/less himself at the beginning of the season.
    I wouldn't look at his stats under Maclean at all. He did not get the ice time or the opportunity he did under Cameron. Right now he is going to play 19-20 mins per night so we will see what he can do for a full season.

    I li said it was a bold call. We will see who is right. But I'm guessing it will be me.

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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    I wouldn't look at his stats under Maclean at all. He did not get the ice time or the opportunity he did under Cameron. Right now he is going to play 19-20 mins per night so we will see what he can do for a full season.

    I li said it was a bold call. We will see who is right. But I'm guessing it will be me.
    Ya that’s why I was using final 55games (start of Cameron’s tenure). He finished the final 55games with just north of 18TOI, but 19TOI is something that could be done.

    Definitely bold.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


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    Default Re: Don't sleep on Mark Stone. He will score 70 points at the minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    so because a player plays all his junior years and then takes two AHL years to make it means he can't be special? Your theory is pretty bad.

    Look at a player everyone has a boner for, Tyler Johnson. What's the difference here? He was a rookie at 23. He had even less points than stone. Look at nyquist who was older as a rookie than stone. You're looking for a trend to back your opinion because you haven't watched stone at all.
    Yeah, I have to agree. Stone was a late pick. He was a late pick because he needed a lot of work on certain aspects of his game. But the reason the Sens drafted him is because they loved his hockey sense and his ability to read the play.

    Like Ev said, he put in his time to develop his game, and when the opportunity came he seized it. He was a late pick and an older rookie because he needed that extra time to round out as a player. Guys like that either make it or they don't (usually the latter), but once they've made it, I don't think it's fair to say he can't become a great player because he started later or was drafted later. As an 18 year-old he was a risky guy to use a higher pick on. As a 23 year-old, the Sens know what they have.
    16 Team Keeper League. Head-to-Head. Daily moves. Keep 10. Roster 20. Keepers in Bold
    Positions: 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 2F, 5D, 1Skt, 2G, 4 Bench
    Skaters: G, A, PPP, PIM, SOG, HITS, BLKS, FOW Goalies: W, GAA, SV%

    C: MacKinnon, Couturier, Eriksson Ek, McCann (LW), Cizikas, Carrick
    LW: Kaprizov, J.T. Miller (C), J. Robertson, Colton (C)
    RW: Perron (LW), T. Moore
    D: Carlson, Ekblad, Letang, Dumba, Lindell, Siegenthaler
    G: Hellebuyck, Vejmelka

    Prospects: Turcotte, Raty, Holtz, N. Robertson, M. Bourque, Lundkvist, Soderstrom, Sandin, Addison

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