Brian Burke Was a Failure During Time as Leafs GM

[James_tanner123]

Back in late 2008, I was ecstatic when the Leafs hired Brian Burke as their General Manager. Burke is outspoken, tough, plays by his own rules and is honorable. He was and is my favorite hockey personality and executive. Had I been able to choose anyone to run the Leafs I would have picked myself first, Burke second.
When Burke was fired in 2013, I declared it to be a move of idiotic proportions. Since Dave Nonis did a horrible and embarrassing job as the Leafs GM – and for the love of God, may he soon be fired – I was right that firing Burke was a bad move.
Or was I?

With hindsight being what it is, I think I may have been right for the wrong reasons. You see, clearly Nonis was bad, but was Burke any better? I thought he was, and I loyally supported and defended almost all of his moves at the time. Even as late as November of this year I was still hoping the Leafs could make it work with Burke’s vision. I think now that I may have blinded by love for my favorite GM. Today I want to go back through Burke’s tenure as the Leafs GM and try to look objectively at how he did.

To Continue reading:

http://thehockeywriters.com/brian-bu...total-failure/

[Instant Karma]

So, you're blaming Burke for a trade that he didn't even make, huh? Nice.

Toronto seemed like a reasonable enough town when I was there. I wonder what's gotten into the water supply since then?

[Big Ev]

"The summer of ’09 saw Burke make his best move: he selected Nazem Kadri seventh overall, a steal as it turns out, since he has proven superior to Evander Kane and Brayden Schenn, two players picked ahead of him."

lol

[jmouland]

I'm not a fan of the hyperbole. The trades were bad enough on their own merit, you don't need to say things like Steen is one of the best players in the NHL (which as was mentioned above wasn't even his move), or Hamilton is having a Norris worthy season, or Kadri is better than Kane, or Stralman is one of the best defensemen in the NHL etc. Overall I agree that Burke was a disaster, but exaggerating to prove your point hurt your article imo.

[James_tanner123]

I'm not a fan of the hyperbole. The trades were bad enough on their own merit, you don't need to say things like Steen is one of the best players in the NHL (which as was mentioned above wasn't even his move), or Hamilton is having a Norris worthy season, or Kadri is better than Kane, or Stralman is one of the best defensemen in the NHL etc. Overall I agree that Burke was a disaster, but exaggerating to prove your point hurt your article imo.

I don't think that's hyperbole at all. Steen is one of the best all-round players in the NHL, no question. He has 60+ points and a 56% CF rating. I think the suggestion that he isn't is crazy. Dougie Hamilton is legitimately a Norris Candidate. Now, he won't be, but that's not his fault - he just isn't enough of a name player to get a nomination yet. But he is a 45 point defenseman with a 56% CF rating, so again, no hyperbole here.

Kadri is a better player than Kane or Schenn, at least so far, and I don't even think you can make an arguement that he isn't. I'd be willing to listen to an argument here, but I know all their stats pretty well and I highly doubt anyone could make a case that either player is better than Kadri. Could they be? Certainly, but they aren't even close really.

And Stralman? Not one of the best D in hockey? Well, he isn't one of the top 5 or anything, but he is still one of the best IMO. He is the third ranking Corsi For D in the NHL and he has a phenomenal 22 ES points. If he isn't one of the best, I don't know who is.


Anyways, thanks for reading, but if you delve into the stats even just a bit, you'll see I'm on point with the guys I mentioned and in no way engaging in hyperbole.

[Instant Karma]

It's hyperbole, sure enough. Those numbers make Steen an excellent player and certainly a desirable player, no doubt. But "best" is a term that implies superlative, and he isn't that.

Crosby and Ovechkin and Price and Stamkos and Tavares and Kane and Giroux and Getzlaf and Seguin, etc. are the "best" players in the league. Steen isn't in that tier, and he isn't even in the tier below that one.

[James_tanner123]

It's hyperbole, sure enough. Those numbers make Steen an excellent player and certainly a desirable player, no doubt. But "best" is a term that implies superlative, and he isn't that.

Crosby and Ovechkin and Price and Stamkos and Tavares and Kane and Giroux and Getzlaf and Seguin, etc. are the "best" players in the league. Steen isn't in that tier, and he isn't even in the tier below that one.

I highly disagree. As far as pure offense goes, sure you got a point. But overall game? I don't think so. Like Bergeron and Toews, Steen may not put up elite offensive numbers, but his overall game is superlative. Of the guys you listed, excluding the goalie, I'd take Crosby and Getzlaf ahead of Steen, but after that? 75% of the game occurs at ES and Steen will give you more consistent minutes than Girioux, Seguin or Ovechkin.

Is he better? I don't know. The whole thing is impossible to judge because scoring is obviously important, but it's hard to compare that to guys whose main job is preventing goals and driving possession.

If it came down to it, I don't think I'd really pick Steen over any of them if I was building a team because he's 31, but just for this year, for the Playoffs? Over all the guys you mentioned but Price, Crosby and Getzlaf. Maybe Stamkos.

[Instant Karma]

I highly disagree.

LOL. I know you highly disagree. It's why I find most of what you write so ridiculous.

You're not a journalist, James, you're an unrepentantly gushing fan-boy. There's a reason why they give awards to journalists and not to fan-boys, because actual journalism is nuanced and sober and therefore interesting to the reader.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are trying to avoid the fan-boys who are pissing in our ears about their team.

[James_tanner123]

LOL. I know you highly disagree. It's why I find most of what you write so ridiculous.

You're not a journalist, James, you're an unrepentantly gushing fan-boy. There's a reason why they give awards to journalists and not to fan-boys, because actual journalism is nuanced and sober and therefore interesting to the reader.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are trying to avoid the fan-boys who are pissing in our ears about their team.

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you must be stupid. That's a very mature approach to take. Never mind that my arguments are based in facts and data and yours amount to "because I said so," but you have to go and insult me. Which, I guess is only natural based on the level of maturity you're displaying.

A gushing fan boy? That's hilarious. The entire article was predicated on the fact that I was in love with Burke's vision but came to realize - by changing my mind when confronted with new information - that I was wrong.

Anyways, thanks for the laugh.

[jmouland]

but just for this year, for the Playoffs? Over all the guys you mentioned but Price, Crosby and Getzlaf. Maybe Stamkos.

You would take Steen over Ovechkin? That tells me all I need to know. Anyway, it's a moot point since it was a deal Burke didn't even make. Clearly a difference of opinion. Your opinion of greatness doesn't change my opinion of your article. You either exaggerated or you have a distorted view of reality. Either way, it's not going to help you connect with readers.

If there is data to support your claims you should include it in your article as it would give your opinions more weight.

[Axeman33]

I can't wait for you to write about how Shanahan/Nonis was a disaster too. Trust me, it's coming.

I am sorry, but I don't know why people continue to think Brian Burke was a disaster as the Leafs GM when there have been LOTS of disasters in Toronto before got there, and there will be disasters there long after he's gone. For whatever reason, people just tend to focus on Burke. I guess it was his big personality.

Where's your column on JFJ, Pat Quinn or Ken Dryden? None of them were successful either.

Building a successful franchise isn't easy and hindsight is always 20/20. Like most GMs, he made good moves and bad ones. Sometimes you swing for the fences and hit a home run, and some times you strike out. More times than not, you strike out. Burke had his misses but he had some decent moves too, and to be honest, I thought he had the franchise going in the right direction when they cut him free.

I guess we will never know who was right and who was wrong.

[Instant Karma]

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you must be stupid. That's a very mature approach to take. Never mind that my arguments are based in facts and data and yours amount to "because I said so," but you have to go and insult me. Which, I guess is only natural based on the level of maturity you're displaying.

A gushing fan boy? That's hilarious. The entire article was predicated on the fact that I was in love with Burke's vision but came to realize - by changing my mind when confronted with new information - that I was wrong.

Anyways, thanks for the laugh.

Keep in mind that I didn't say that, you did. That was purely a reduction on your part to make what I did say something that you can grapple with.

What I actually said is that you're clearly not objective or sober in the logic that forms or opinions, yet you believe that you are. Not the same thing. It's not that you need to be smarter necessarily, but a little self-awareness would go a long way.

Otherwise intelligent people form ill-conceived opinions as a matter of course. It typically arises from strict adherence to some dogma or pre-conceived notions. I don't think that you're stupid, I just think that you're wrong. And I feel pretty comfortable with that assessment.

And I'm clearly not alone on these forums in holding that opinion of your efforts.

If you're going to argue with with what I'm saying, fine. But at least make an effort to understand what it is that I'm saying.


As far as your "facts and data" are concerned, let me remind everyone that a cornerstone of your arguments is blaming Burke for a trade that took place before his tenure even began. That's a rather stellar example of your logical process.

Facts and data are cheap, it's the conclusions drawn from those facts and data that demonstrate the validity of your thought processes. You have a tendency to latch onto data that confirms your argument, ignoring everything else, just as you did with that ridiculous "Kadri is better than Johansen" article that you wrote.

[bondon]

I don't know you James Tanner, so I can't not like you.
I do dislike your writing style though, having read a few of your articles in the past. And I'll never read anything from you again. Sorry.
You write like Damien Cox. I wish that was a complement, but it's not. Cox is awful, in so many ways. I want to tattoo "awful" on his big bald head.

I see Steen was brought up into the conversation... not sure why since Burke didn't trade away Steen. Silver Fox pulled off that one, and he will always get a pass from me because of the Gilmour and Sundin trades (even though I loved Clark and hated the Sundin trade the day it happened...). Burke made some strange decisions/moves, yes, but Steen wasn't one of them.

Burke was indeed a failure; it's impossible to argue that. The standings speak for themselves.
However, he was also fired prematurely and for all the wrong reasons.
He did more good than bad, and I loved his interviews. I'll always be a Burke fan, despite his shortcomings.
I'll leave it at that.

Agreed.

Not to mention, you aren't even consistent in the words that you write. Didn't one of your articles state that Kadri was by far the best player the Leafs have drafted in the last 15 years? And now you say that Steen is one of the best all around players in the NHL?

Unless you think that Kadri is one of the best all around players in the NHL.

Then again, as EV pointed out earlier, you think Kadri has been superior to Kane and Schenn.

In retrospect maybe I'm wrong. You are consistent in your writing. Consistently wrong? Is that a thing?

[Rodgort]

Was Nonis the awful one or was it simply the advice he was getting from the guys Shannahan canned and Carlyle only wanted his shitty players? I see Nonis as a smart GM who takes awful advice, but it seems like when you want him to get something done he can. (i.e. trading for Luongo or somehow trading Clarkson)

Also while Burke drafted poorly, he made a ton of good trades in his tenure there it was the depth that became the problem.

[Big Ev]

Agreed.

Not to mention, you aren't even consistent in the words that you write. Didn't one of your articles state that Kadri was by far the best player the Leafs have drafted in the last 15 years? And now you say that Steen is one of the best all around players in the NHL?

Unless you think that Kadri is one of the best all around players in the NHL.

Then again, as EV pointed out earlier, you think Kadri has been superior to Kane and Schenn.

In retrospect maybe I'm wrong. You are consistent in your writing. Consistently wrong? Is that a thing?

To be fair I think he has been better than Schenn