Is this the new norm for Karlsson?

[Big Ev]

I said it immediately in the summer when the Sens made him Captain, and let Spezza go, that Karlsson owners were in for a down season. It was clear as day. Not only are the Sens a non-sexy offensive team with no high-end gamebreakers (other than Karlsson himself), but the C comes with the burden of leading by example and sacrifice. In Karlsson's case, the sacrifice has been giving up offense in attempts to make the team all-around better. Although happy for Karlsson getting the C, I absolutely hated it from a fantasy perspective. Will he bounce back? I sure hope so. But the Sens don't have much firepower or players who can play the game on Karlsson's elite level. Swap him and Hedman - putting Karlsson on Tampa - and he's a lock to score 85 points a year.

tampa didn't have firepower either. They were a team in the dumps. Tampa doesn't have a winger like Bobby ryan riigt now either. I don't think people understand these things are cyclical. Tampa won't be high scoring forever and ottawa won't be lower scoring forever. Players develop, players get better, players move on, teams change philiosophies etc.

since he didn't even reach 85 points in his best years here, I very much doubt he'd get 85 on Tampa. You're exaggerating. Who is a high end game breaker on Tampa other than Stamkos anyway? Not buying it.

Also in no way shape or form has he given up his offense to lead by example this season. He leads by example through his offense and his natural gifts. The c does add pressure but he hasn't changed his mindset.

funny how that spezza guy has one more point than our number one centre. His loss didn't change karlssons output.

[fungchen3]

Not sure where the notion of Karlsson giving up offensive attempts comes from. He's shooting the puck more than ever before, previous career high for SOG per game is 3.2 he is averaging 3.7 SOG per game this year.

It's not just about shots - it's about taking risky chances. Karlsson was a notorious riverboat gambler who pushed the throttle and took many risks. While he still thinks offense, he has been a bit more composed when taking the extra dangerous chances. Those chances resulted in goals, either for Karlsson or against him, but it generated activity. EK is still logging a ton of PP minutes (which is a good thing) and the shot count doesn't worry me but the lack of offensive aggressiveness does. And, let's not forget that there's not many finishers on the Sens you can actually count on, so Karlsson has limited resources. Both of these elements make for non-Karlsson-like-numbers.

[Big Ev]

Not sure where the notion of Karlsson giving up offensive attempts comes from. He's shooting the puck more than ever before, previous career high for SOG per game is 3.2 he is averaging 3.7 SOG per game this year. I would argue he has actually taken on more offensive burden but hasn't had great luck so far based on his SH%.

its a myth and totally false if people who say that he has focused less on offense actualy watch the games. If anything it's the defense that's been lacking since his Achilles tear.

[fungchen3]

tampa didn't have firepower either. They were a team in the dumps. Tampa doesn't have a winger like Bobby ryan riigt now either. I don't think people understand these things are cyclical. Tampa won't be high scoring forever and ottawa won't be lower scoring forever. Players develop, players get better, players move on, teams change philiosophies etc.

since he didn't even reach 85 points in his best years here, I very much doubt he'd get 85 on Tampa. You're exaggerating.

Also in no way shape or form has he given up his offense to lead by example this season. He leads by example through his offense and his natural gifts. The c does add pressure but he hasn't changed his mindset.

Ev, Tampa has a winger in Kucherov who blows Ryan out of the water offensively. He's a gifted player who can finish and dish the biscuit... and he's far more dynamic than Ryan. Then you add weapons like Johnson and Palat, not to mention the nuke bomb in Stamkos, and you have a very scary forward group. I don't know how you can legitimately think Karlsson wouldn't produce more with those weapons than the limited toys he has to play with in Ottawa. Come on, man. Bobby Ryan is a good winger, yes. But he hasn't been nearly as scary with Ottawa. And Turris? MacArthur? Zibanejad? These guys aren't scaring anyone. I watch the Sens more than any other team but the Flyers and I'm discouraged when I see Karlsson trying to create with nobody nearly good enough to capitalize on his QBing skills. That said, he does "lead" offensively, but he is definitely playing a less risky game.

[Big Ev]

Ev, Tampa has a winger in Kucherov who blows Ryan out of the water offensively. He's a gifted player who can finish and dish the biscuit... and he's far more dynamic that Ryan. Then you add weapons like Johnson and Palat, not to mention the nuke bomb in Stamkos, and you have a very scary forward group. I don't know how you can legitimately think Karlsson wouldn't produce more with those weapons than the limited toys he has to play with in Ottawa. Come on, man. Bobby Ryan is a good winger, yes. But he hasn't been nearly as scary with Ottawa. And Turris? MacArthur? Zibanejad? These guys aren't scaring anyone. I watch the Sens more than any other team but the Flyers and I'm discouraged when I see Karlsson trying to create with nobody nearly good enough to capitalize on his QBing skills. That said, he does "lead" offensively, but he is definitely playing a less risky game.

none of those players are high end game breakers, especially after one season or one and a half seasons of play. You're overrating their play as they have been overachieving hard this season. I love how you mention a guy like Palat as a huge weapon and then just dismiss a guy like Turris or a MacArthur or Hoffman. Nobody actually thinks Kucherov and Johnson will continue at this pace, and if they do they need to stop taking whatever drug they're taking. Talk to me next season and we will see how scary Tampas forwards are. They are good layers but not high end as you suggest. High end is reserved for the elites. Please find me an idiot that would actually take Kucherov over Bobby Ryan.

Have you watched Mike Hoffman lately? Him and Bobby Ryan have been magic together. Karlsson doesn't have Alfie to lean on but he has pieces to put up points, and he can do it all himself.

i doubt you watch the Sens closely if you truly think he's taken less risks this year. He might have under the new coach but not the whole year. Not even close.

[Big Ev]

The point is just because a team doesn't loo to have weapons now doesn't mean that will always be the case. Zibanejad, Hoffman, ceci, Lazar, whoever they get this year, will all mature and develop their games and create a good support group for Karlsson, just like Tampas forwards have now. Look at a team like montreal. Not many weapons there but they have enough for subban to put up points.

[fungchen3]

Ev, your talking with your Sens fans googles on right now, and that's cool. I get it - it's your team. But there's no way on earth you wouldn't swap out the Sens forwards for the Bolts forwards today if you could. If you wouldn't, you're insane. I'm a big believer in Kucherov and would take him over Ryan in both fantasy and real life - and I'm a Ryan fan. Like I said, outside of a few bursts, I haven't been overly impressed with Ryan since he's been a Sen. That doesn't mean I don't like the kid personally, because I do.

But, since you think my rationale on why Karlsson isn't putting up great numbers is bogus, explain why you think he's underachieving offensively by his standards? It has to be something. All can't be Utopia in Ottawa - there must be a reason. I watch PP after PP with nothing being accomplished when Karlsson's out there. I don't see the ultra risk taking. There haven't been any of those explosive 3 point games that EK (and the other elite offensive defensemen) seem to bag off and on.

Edit: I do agree with your point that Ottawa's dismal offensive weapons will (should) eventually improve. But that doesn't change the fact that, until they do, Karlsson will take a hit. And that also reinforces my point that with a better offense (Tampa) Karlsson would put on far more points. The better the players the better Karlsson's production would be.

[mister_mcgoo]

I think you need to get ready for a couple down seasons from him until the team around him improves. I see no reason to expect his current pace to change, 55 pts is nothing to scoff at by any stretch, but when you're used to 75, it hurts. The Sens fanboys will try to tell you the loss of Spezza didn't hurt but it did, Turris is thrust into playing REAL 1st line minutes and he's not quite up to the task. It's tough for even the best forwards in the league to stay consistently at the top of scoring, I would argue it's harder still for d-men. If the Sens ever get back to being a playoff team again Karlsson's numbers will probably rebound but it's going to take a couple years for them to build back to that.

[Big Ev]

I think you need to get ready for a couple down seasons from him until the team around him improves. I see no reason to expect his current pace to change, 55 pts is nothing to scoff at by any stretch, but when you're used to 75, it hurts. The Sens fanboys will try to tell you the loss of Spezza didn't hurt but it did, Turris is thrust into playing REAL 1st line minutes and he's not quite up to the task. It's tough for even the best forwards in the league to stay consistently at the top of scoring, I would argue it's harder still for d-men. If the Sens ever get back to being a playoff team again Karlsson's numbers will probably rebound but it's going to take a couple years for them to build back to that.

I don't see why playoffs matters. They didn't make the playoffs last year.

I guess spezza is up to task as a second line centre then

[mister_mcgoo]

I don't see why playoffs matters. They didn't make the playoffs last year.

I guess spezza is up to task as a second line centre then

It matters because the team sucks...last year they were at least on the cusp of making the playoffs, this year they'll finish 10-15 pts out and they're scoring fewer goals, that will hurt EKs production

As far as Spezza goes, he's on pace for 57 pts which is which is 3 better than your current 1st line C so yeah I'd say he's fit in pretty well.

[Bookoz]

none of those players are high end game breakers, especially after one season or one and a half seasons of play. You're overrating their play as they have been overachieving hard this season. I love how you mention a guy like Palat as a huge weapon and then just dismiss a guy like Turris or a MacArthur or Hoffman. Nobody actually thinks Kucherov and Johnson will continue at this pace, and if they do they need to stop taking whatever drug they're taking. Talk to me next season and we will see how scary Tampas forwards are. They are good layers but not high end as you suggest. High end is reserved for the elites. Please find me an idiot that would actually take Kucherov over Bobby Ryan.

Have you watched Mike Hoffman lately? Him and Bobby Ryan have been magic together. Karlsson doesn't have Alfie to lean on but he has pieces to put up points, and he can do it all himself.

i doubt you watch the Sens closely if you truly think he's taken less risks this year. He might have under the new coach but not the whole year. Not even close.

What the hell?
Are we comparing Kucherov Johnson Palat and Stamkos to Turris Hoffman Macarthur and Ryan??

I wouldnt take Ryan (probably the best of those 4) over any of the tampa 4

[Jordyr77]

none of those players are high end game breakers, especially after one season or one and a half seasons of play. You're overrating their play as they have been overachieving hard this season. I love how you mention a guy like Palat as a huge weapon and then just dismiss a guy like Turris or a MacArthur or Hoffman. Nobody actually thinks Kucherov and Johnson will continue at this pace, and if they do they need to stop taking whatever drug they're taking. Talk to me next season and we will see how scary Tampas forwards are. They are good layers but not high end as you suggest. High end is reserved for the elites. Please find me an idiot that would actually take Kucherov over Bobby Ryan.

Have you watched Mike Hoffman lately? Him and Bobby Ryan have been magic together. Karlsson doesn't have Alfie to lean on but he has pieces to put up points, and he can do it all himself.

i doubt you watch the Sens closely if you truly think he's taken less risks this year. He might have under the new coach but not the whole year. Not even close.

I would take Kucherov, Johnson, and Stamkos all before any Ott forward. Ryan maybe over Palat, but none of the other three Sens would ever be taken before any of the four listed. Oh and we forgot Drouin. Maybe also the fact that the team is 3rd in the East? What has Ryan done. Johnson has been explosive this year and Kucherov is a special talent. Would've been drafted much higher if not for the Russian factor.

[Bookoz]

I would take Kucherov, Johnson, and Stamkos all before any Ott forward. Ryan maybe over Palat, but none of the other three Sens would ever be taken before any of the four listed. Oh and we forgot Drouin. Maybe also the fact that the team is 3rd in the East? What has Ryan done. Johnson has been explosive this year and Kucherov is a special talent. Would've been drafted much higher if not for the Russian factor.

Palat is FAR more valuable than Ryan
Not only is he showing he can be better offensively but hes one of the best defensive forwards in the entire league
I can see him winning the Selke a few times in his career
As explosive as Johnson and Kucherov are, that line is not nearly as effective without Palat
All Ryan has is name value, while Palat might be the most underrated player in the league

[LakeSoup]

It's not just about shots - it's about taking risky chances. Karlsson was a notorious riverboat gambler who pushed the throttle and took many risks. While he still thinks offense, he has been a bit more composed when taking the extra dangerous chances. Those chances resulted in goals, either for Karlsson or against him, but it generated activity. EK is still logging a ton of PP minutes (which is a good thing) and the shot count doesn't worry me but the lack of offensive aggressiveness does. And, let's not forget that there's not many finishers on the Sens you can actually count on, so Karlsson has limited resources. Both of these elements make for non-Karlsson-like-numbers.

This is an excellent post.

[2014olympicgold]

It’s hard to say that one player will do better on another team. Nash from CBJ to NYR was supposed to make Nash elite. This is his first yr doing well there.
Is Kucherov good, yes very. Love having him on my fantasy team. Is TJ good, his numbers suggest that, and I don’t watch enough TBL to comment on it. But when you have a guy like Stamkos, a lot of people feed off that, even when he’s not on your line. Then the 3^rd line of Namestnikov and Drouin pulls some pressure off line 2. The whole Tampa team complements everyone on tampa, and I doubt if moving one person they’d do just as well in their new home. Same goes with Karlsson.

Like I said before, Karlsson isn’t far off his pace from years before. He’s like 8pts off his pace right now. Something like 3G and 5A, and 3pts would be powerplay points based on his career PPP/Even strength point ratio. This is just blown way out of proportion. Just everyone settle down. Jump on a thread and start asking if this is Hall’s new norm, he’s doing just as bad.

I think this website needs to mediate the amount of “Is Karlsson done?” threads to 2/month.