Hey Look Karlsson

[Axeman33]

You are using someones +/- to determine their ability to play on the defensive side of the game? And you call me thick?

I should have known better than to engage you in a civil conversation.

Thanks for the back and forth. It was interesting.

[Vanek! at the Disco]

You are using someones +/- to determine their ability to play on the defensive side of the game? And you call me thick?

I should have known better than to engage you in a civil conversation.

Thanks for the back and forth. It was interesting.

Try to pay attention. That's why I very specifically said: "I'll give you an example, it's a massive oversimplification but anything more complicated will confuse you so lets stick with very simple numbers.". Since you were struggling to even grasp the fact that "overall" entails more than just defense I tried to dumb it way down into simple two-digit numbers for you but that still went over your head. Frightening.

[2014olympicgold]

You are using someones +/- to determine their ability to play on the defensive side of the game? And you call me thick?

I should have known better than to engage you in a civil conversation.

Thanks for the back and forth. It was interesting.

He was using +/- as a simple point.

But going good play by Karlsson +1, bad play by Karlsson -1, 1 assist by Karlsson +1.5, 1 goal by Karlsson +3, goal against because of Karlsson -2 = +2.5

Something dumb like that. So Karlsson got a lot of +’s because of his offensive game, and he gets more + than – over Weber or Chara to catch up.

Simple way of one man’s thinking. G=+2, A=+1
Karlsson:
OP (+97) + DP (+10) = +107
Weber:
OP (+68) + DP (+38) = +106

[27Blue]

The Norris is joke.
+/- tells you nothing.
Karlsson is a generational offensive d-man.
No GM in the league would take him over Weber, especially for a playoffs.

[Kofax]

Karlsson wasn't all that close to Chara and Weber defensively during his Norris win. Personally I want my Norris winner to be a stud defensively that puts up solid points, and I don't think he deserved it in 2011-2012. He's much closer to a Norris contender now then he was back then. The reason he did win was due to his significant offensive production, which made him the sexy pick. During the 2011-2012 season Karlsson played relatively sheltered minutes, especially compared to his competition Chara and Weber.

Offensive Zone vs Defenseive Zone
Karlsson - 35% vs 25%
Chara - 35% vs 36%
Weber - 25% vs 36%

Combine that with the higher quality of competition faced by both Chara and Weber and the fact that they came out with around 50 points and significant +/- numbers just speaks more to their elite performance as an all-round defender as opposed to a primarily offensive one. It's hard to quantify the number of pucks kept out of your own net, but it's a very important factor for a defenseman.

To me, to win the Norris you should be facing the other teams top line night in night out, and still be able to post strong +/- and offensive numbers. Karlsson does that now, but he didn't when he won the Norris. To me he is a better Norris contender today than when he won back in 2011-2012, but his significant lead in points made him the sexy pick.

[Big Ev]

The Norris is joke.
+/- tells you nothing.
Karlsson is a generational offensive d-man.
No GM in the league would take him over Weber, especially for a playoffs.

And nobody would trade Weber or Karlsson for AP.

Also Sens wouldn't trade $6.5 million Karlsson at 24 for Weber at $7+ million, 29 years old

[Rodgort]

So Karlsson is pretty much the most polarizing player in 2015 so far? hahah

[2014olympicgold]

I like how in early December it was Gio vs Hedman race. Gio is in it still, but this is a prime example of a strong finish trumps a strong start in the Norris/Vezina

[27Blue]

And nobody would trade Weber or Karlsson for AP.

Also Sens wouldn't trade $6.5 million Karlsson at 24 for Weber at $7+ million, 29 years old

What does AP have to do with anything here? And every GM would take Weber at his age and contract over Karlsson at his age and his contract... provided, winning is the goal. So you are right, the Sens might be the one team that would prefer Karlsson seeing as winning just doesn't seem to be their thing. Karlsson is a beauty, but he is no Weber and in the playoffs, the way the games are played, the gap between Karlsson and Weber gets even wider. Karlsson should never have a won a Norris, if a Norris is, in fact, for the best defenceman in the league. He's never been that... not even really that close.

[Big Ev]

What does AP have to do with anything here? And every GM would take Weber at his age and contract over Karlsson at his age and his contract... provided, winning is the goal. So you are right, the Sens might be the one team that would prefer Karlsson seeing as winning just doesn't seem to be their thing. Karlsson is a beauty, but he is no Weber and in the playoffs, the way the games are played, the gap between Karlsson and Weber gets even wider. Karlsson should never have a won a Norris, if a Norris is, in fact, for the best defenceman in the league. He's never been that... not even really that close.

I forgot Weber has won all those playoff rounds and Cups. Oh wait he has won a grand total of one playoff round more than Karlsson. Those preds have done so much winning in their history. Your argument is pure crap. Karlsson is great to have no matter if it is the regular season or playoffs. I'm not going to bother with you since you're already dead wrong about "all GMs preferring Weber regardless of contract and age". Stick to the Isles and Blues.

And AP? Because you were the one going on about how he is the best dman in the league. Now that's a guy who can't even hold a candle to the top D in the league because his offensive skill is subpar compared to them

[The Comish]

It would be VERY interesting to anonymously poll each of the 30 GM's to see who they think the "BEST defenseman in the game today" is. And ask it exactly that way, no caveat's, no age, no starting a franchise. Just a simple question with one answer.

My money would be on Drew Doughty.

[27Blue]

I forgot Weber has won all those playoff rounds and Cups. Oh wait he has won a grand total of one playoff round more than Karlsson. Those preds have done so much winning in their history. Your argument is pure crap. Karlsson is great to have no matter if it is the regular season or playoffs. I'm not going to bother with you since you're already dead wrong about "all GMs preferring Weber regardless of contract and age". Stick to the Isles and Blues.

And AP? Because you were the one going on about how he is the best dman in the league. Now that's a guy who can't even hold a candle to the top D in the league because his offensive skill is subpar compared to them

You forgot that hockey is a team sport. Weber makes a team better than Karlsson does. Nobody wins cups on their own dumb ass. I'm not going to bother with you because blah blah blah. Karlsson is great to have, especially in fantasy. Ottawa is lucky to have him. Weber and others are just better... if winning is the goal, that is. Karlsson is probably better if entertainment is the goal... unfortunately in Ottawa, neither seems to be a priority. At least Karlsson gets to work on his golf swing a lot and I hear Ottawa has a great ballet.

[Vanek! at the Disco]

It would be VERY interesting to anonymously poll each of the 30 GM's to see who they think the "BEST defenseman in the game today" is. And ask it exactly that way, no caveat's, no age, no starting a franchise. Just a simple question with one answer.

My money would be on Drew Doughty.

Agreed. And I think you are right that DD would be near the top of most lists, Weber too. That's how Canada wins gold medals, a D that is head and shoulders above everyone else's

[Jordyr77]

Karlsson <<<<<<<< Weber and Doughty (the two best all around defenseman in my mind). Crosby made Karlsson look like a fool in the playoffs. He's also looked terrible defensively this year and has made a lot of poor plays. Like mentioned above, he is a generational talent offensively, but his defensive play really makes him a lesser overall player.

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good to see Big Ev is still trolling this