Ribeiro for Stamkos

[mister_mcgoo]

great discussion, I\'ll give you all karma as my power meter recharges

but this:

Gaborlick wrote:

btw: Last season
TAMPA:
1st Period
Tampa Bay 1:31, Vincent Lecavalier 13 (power play) (Martin St. Louis, Brad Richards)
Washington 12:46, Brooks Laich 3 (Shaone Morrisonn, Boyd Gordon)
Washington 13:30, Alexander Ovechkin 13 (Chris Clark, Nicklas Backstrom)
Tampa Bay 15:19, Jan Hlavac 3 (unassisted)
2nd Period
Tampa Bay 10:22, Brad Richards 7 (power play) (Vincent Lecavalier)
Tampa Bay 19:32, Paul Ranger 4 (Martin St. Louis)
3rd Period
Tampa Bay 19:36, Martin St. Louis 7 (empty net) (Brad Richards, Vincent Lecavalier)
-------------------------

Dallas
Chicago 4:08, Dustin Byfuglien 13 (power play) (Jason Williams)
Dallas 4:57, Niklas Hagman 23 (Brad Richards, Trevor Daley)
Dallas 9:58, Mike Modano 18 (unassisted)
2nd Period
Dallas 2:47, Niklas Hagman 24 (Antti Miettinen, Brad Richards)
Dallas 4:41, Loui Eriksson 12 (Brenden Morrow, Mike Ribeiro)
Dallas 6:34, Trevor Daley 3 (Brad Richards, Antti Miettinen)
3rd Period
Chicago 4:25, Rene Bourque 7 (shorthanded) (unassisted)
Dallas 5:55, Niklas Hagman 25 (Brad Richards, Philippe Boucher)
Chicago 9:20, Andrew Ladd 10 (Petri Kontiola, Jason Williams)
Dallas 16:49, Jere Lehtinen 12 (power play) (Brad Richards, Mike Modano)
Chicago 18:15, Rene Bourque 8 (shorthanded) (Craig Adams)
_______________

Look at the difference in who he is playing with and who he is scoring with.

is ****ing absurd...do you actually imagine that choosing 2 games of your choice from a season of 82 games proves jack shit? I absolutely abhor arguments like this, I guarantee you I could spend 3 hours digging thru box scores to find a case that disproves whatever feeble point you were trying to make, cmon now

[playmaker26]

mister_mcgoo wrote:

great discussion, I\'ll give you all karma as my power meter recharges

but this:

Gaborlick wrote:

btw: Last season
TAMPA:
1st Period
Tampa Bay 1:31, Vincent Lecavalier 13 (power play) (Martin St. Louis, Brad Richards)
Washington 12:46, Brooks Laich 3 (Shaone Morrisonn, Boyd Gordon)
Washington 13:30, Alexander Ovechkin 13 (Chris Clark, Nicklas Backstrom)
Tampa Bay 15:19, Jan Hlavac 3 (unassisted)
2nd Period
Tampa Bay 10:22, Brad Richards 7 (power play) (Vincent Lecavalier)
Tampa Bay 19:32, Paul Ranger 4 (Martin St. Louis)
3rd Period
Tampa Bay 19:36, Martin St. Louis 7 (empty net) (Brad Richards, Vincent Lecavalier)
-------------------------

Dallas
Chicago 4:08, Dustin Byfuglien 13 (power play) (Jason Williams)
Dallas 4:57, Niklas Hagman 23 (Brad Richards, Trevor Daley)
Dallas 9:58, Mike Modano 18 (unassisted)
2nd Period
Dallas 2:47, Niklas Hagman 24 (Antti Miettinen, Brad Richards)
Dallas 4:41, Loui Eriksson 12 (Brenden Morrow, Mike Ribeiro)
Dallas 6:34, Trevor Daley 3 (Brad Richards, Antti Miettinen)
3rd Period
Chicago 4:25, Rene Bourque 7 (shorthanded) (unassisted)
Dallas 5:55, Niklas Hagman 25 (Brad Richards, Philippe Boucher)
Chicago 9:20, Andrew Ladd 10 (Petri Kontiola, Jason Williams)
Dallas 16:49, Jere Lehtinen 12 (power play) (Brad Richards, Mike Modano)
Chicago 18:15, Rene Bourque 8 (shorthanded) (Craig Adams)
_______________

Look at the difference in who he is playing with and who he is scoring with.

is ****ing absurd...do you actually imagine that choosing 2 games of your choice from a season of 82 games proves jack shit? I absolutely abhor arguments like this, I guarantee you I could spend 3 hours digging thru box scores to find a case that disproves whatever feeble point you were trying to make, cmon now

Thank you!!!!!!!! B)

[Cartman]

Back to the original question...

can you give us an update? Did you make off like a bandit here and get Stamkos for Micky Ribs (I don\'t know of anybody in any of the keeper leagues that would pull this trade and give up Stamkos... well, there is one... right ahn?)

[Nunezilla]

I haven\'t made the offer yet. His top 8 is pretty solid so my plan is to make the offer after our protected lists are submitted (we keep 8), that way he can take Ribeiro as his 9th guy. Unfortunately that means I won\'t have an update until September... though I suppose I could throw the idea out there now and see how he feels about it.

[Gaborlick]

mister_mcgoo wrote:

great discussion, I\'ll give you all karma as my power meter recharges

but this:

Gaborlick wrote:

btw: Last season
TAMPA:
1st Period
Tampa Bay 1:31, Vincent Lecavalier 13 (power play) (Martin St. Louis, Brad Richards)
Washington 12:46, Brooks Laich 3 (Shaone Morrisonn, Boyd Gordon)
Washington 13:30, Alexander Ovechkin 13 (Chris Clark, Nicklas Backstrom)
Tampa Bay 15:19, Jan Hlavac 3 (unassisted)
2nd Period
Tampa Bay 10:22, Brad Richards 7 (power play) (Vincent Lecavalier)
Tampa Bay 19:32, Paul Ranger 4 (Martin St. Louis)
3rd Period
Tampa Bay 19:36, Martin St. Louis 7 (empty net) (Brad Richards, Vincent Lecavalier)
-------------------------

Dallas
Chicago 4:08, Dustin Byfuglien 13 (power play) (Jason Williams)
Dallas 4:57, Niklas Hagman 23 (Brad Richards, Trevor Daley)
Dallas 9:58, Mike Modano 18 (unassisted)
2nd Period
Dallas 2:47, Niklas Hagman 24 (Antti Miettinen, Brad Richards)
Dallas 4:41, Loui Eriksson 12 (Brenden Morrow, Mike Ribeiro)
Dallas 6:34, Trevor Daley 3 (Brad Richards, Antti Miettinen)
3rd Period
Chicago 4:25, Rene Bourque 7 (shorthanded) (unassisted)
Dallas 5:55, Niklas Hagman 25 (Brad Richards, Philippe Boucher)
Chicago 9:20, Andrew Ladd 10 (Petri Kontiola, Jason Williams)
Dallas 16:49, Jere Lehtinen 12 (power play) (Brad Richards, Mike Modano)
Chicago 18:15, Rene Bourque 8 (shorthanded) (Craig Adams)
_______________

Look at the difference in who he is playing with and who he is scoring with.

is ****ing absurd...do you actually imagine that choosing 2 games of your choice from a season of 82 games proves jack shit? I absolutely abhor arguments like this, I guarantee you I could spend 3 hours digging thru box scores to find a case that disproves whatever feeble point you were trying to make, cmon now

no, you\'re right. I went through some box scores, the dallas game was the only one that showed him getting points. HAHA

I never really got to my point on this, but it doesn\'t matter, you obviously would never listen to or consider it.

I was only showing that when Richards is on the power play, he plays with stars, when he is even strength he plays with normal average joes. It doesn\'t really matter what game you bring up to show it....

The point there is that when on even strength he was making the players around him better. Obviously playing with vinny and St L made him even better and boosted his numbers.

Like i\'ve said, I don\'t think he has the gusto to make people around him better anymore.

Thanks everyone for the great discussion. As feeble as my points apparently are!!!:P :laugh:

[Crazynuck]

Nunezilla wrote:

I haven\'t made the offer yet. His top 8 is pretty solid so my plan is to make the offer after our protected lists are submitted (we keep 8), that way he can take Ribeiro as his 9th guy. Unfortunately that means I won\'t have an update until September... though I suppose I could throw the idea out there now and see how he feels about it.

good luck and sorry to jack your thread. although it turned out to be a great discussion

[playmaker26]

Gaborlick wrote:

mister_mcgoo wrote:

great discussion, I\'ll give you all karma as my power meter recharges

but this:

Gaborlick wrote:

btw: Last season
TAMPA:
1st Period
Tampa Bay 1:31, Vincent Lecavalier 13 (power play) (Martin St. Louis, Brad Richards)
Washington 12:46, Brooks Laich 3 (Shaone Morrisonn, Boyd Gordon)
Washington 13:30, Alexander Ovechkin 13 (Chris Clark, Nicklas Backstrom)
Tampa Bay 15:19, Jan Hlavac 3 (unassisted)
2nd Period
Tampa Bay 10:22, Brad Richards 7 (power play) (Vincent Lecavalier)
Tampa Bay 19:32, Paul Ranger 4 (Martin St. Louis)
3rd Period
Tampa Bay 19:36, Martin St. Louis 7 (empty net) (Brad Richards, Vincent Lecavalier)
-------------------------

Dallas
Chicago 4:08, Dustin Byfuglien 13 (power play) (Jason Williams)
Dallas 4:57, Niklas Hagman 23 (Brad Richards, Trevor Daley)
Dallas 9:58, Mike Modano 18 (unassisted)
2nd Period
Dallas 2:47, Niklas Hagman 24 (Antti Miettinen, Brad Richards)
Dallas 4:41, Loui Eriksson 12 (Brenden Morrow, Mike Ribeiro)
Dallas 6:34, Trevor Daley 3 (Brad Richards, Antti Miettinen)
3rd Period
Chicago 4:25, Rene Bourque 7 (shorthanded) (unassisted)
Dallas 5:55, Niklas Hagman 25 (Brad Richards, Philippe Boucher)
Chicago 9:20, Andrew Ladd 10 (Petri Kontiola, Jason Williams)
Dallas 16:49, Jere Lehtinen 12 (power play) (Brad Richards, Mike Modano)
Chicago 18:15, Rene Bourque 8 (shorthanded) (Craig Adams)
_______________

Look at the difference in who he is playing with and who he is scoring with.

is ****ing absurd...do you actually imagine that choosing 2 games of your choice from a season of 82 games proves jack shit? I absolutely abhor arguments like this, I guarantee you I could spend 3 hours digging thru box scores to find a case that disproves whatever feeble point you were trying to make, cmon now

no, you\'re right. I went through some box scores, the dallas game was the only one that showed him getting points. HAHA

I never really got to my point on this, but it doesn\'t matter, you obviously would never listen to or consider it.

I was only showing that when Richards is on the power play, he plays with stars, when he is even strength he plays with normal average joes. It doesn\'t really matter what game you bring up to show it....

The point there is that when on even strength he was making the players around him better. Obviously playing with vinny and St L made him even better and boosted his numbers.

Like i\'ve said, I don\'t think he has the gusto to make people around him better anymore.

Thanks everyone for the great discussion. As feeble as my points apparently are!!!:P :laugh:

I really don\'t know how you can say someone doesn\'t have the ability to make the players around him better. So when Joe Sakic, who is much older, plays with people worse than him, he doesn\'t make them better? He still does. Richards does as well because he\'s better than those average joes and he\'s a playmaker.

Everything went right in his first game back but look who benefitted...Niklas Hagman with a hat trick. He slumped all year last year if you take away his hot start.

[Gaborlick]

i agree, but it didn\'t last, if there was some consistency to it, I would think he was better that the hype (not that there is lots of hype, but just lack of a better word.)

I see your point with Sakic. But Sakic still has the star power to make those around him better. I think that Richards is a good player, but maybe doesn\'t have the drive to work as hard as he used to...

[Nunezilla]

Crazynuck wrote:
good luck and sorry to jack your thread. although it turned out to be a great discussion

No worries, it\'s been an interesting read. Alot of great points for both sides on B.Richards and I\'m actually very interested to see what the change of scenery in Dallas does for him.

[mister_mcgoo]

Gaborlick wrote:

no, you\'re right. I went through some box scores, the dallas game was the only one that showed him getting points. HAHA

I never really got to my point on this, but it doesn\'t matter, you obviously would never listen to or consider it.

I was only showing that when Richards is on the power play, he plays with stars, when he is even strength he plays with normal average joes. It doesn\'t really matter what game you bring up to show it....

The point there is that when on even strength he was making the players around him better. Obviously playing with vinny and St L made him even better and boosted his numbers.

Like i\'ve said, I don\'t think he has the gusto to make people around him better anymore.

Thanks everyone for the great discussion. As feeble as my points apparently are!!!:P :laugh:

I don\'t mean to beat you up man, I just absolutely hate it when people post a couple of random box scores to support their point...IMO you might as well post the weather for two random days of the season :lol:

I think what you are saying has merit though, I was a Richards owner last year and was often frustrated by some of the line combos he ended up on and it seemed to me as well that he was scoring most of his points on the PP because he would be paired with Vinny and St. Louis. So in the interest of investigating this point I pulled the actual stats for 07-08 and here\'s what I got.

TB: if we consider the \"stars\" on TB to be St. Louis and Lecavilier, Richards played with at least one of them 39.6% of the time ES and 77.7% of the time on the PP. He scored 51 pts on TB last year, 25 of them were on the PP, 2 were SH and the remainder were ES

I\'ll run Dallas as well if you\'d like to compare, just let me know who you would consider \"star\" pairings on the Stars. To Playmaker\'s point, for exaple, even though Modano\'s role is not what it once was its hard to argue that he\'s not a benefit to play with.

[Gaborlick]

mister_mcgoo wrote:

Gaborlick wrote:

no, you\'re right. I went through some box scores, the dallas game was the only one that showed him getting points. HAHA

I never really got to my point on this, but it doesn\'t matter, you obviously would never listen to or consider it.

I was only showing that when Richards is on the power play, he plays with stars, when he is even strength he plays with normal average joes. It doesn\'t really matter what game you bring up to show it....

The point there is that when on even strength he was making the players around him better. Obviously playing with vinny and St L made him even better and boosted his numbers.

Like i\'ve said, I don\'t think he has the gusto to make people around him better anymore.

Thanks everyone for the great discussion. As feeble as my points apparently are!!!:P :laugh:

I don\'t mean to beat you up man, I just absolutely hate it when people post a couple of random box scores to support their point...IMO you might as well post the weather for two random days of the season :lol:

I think what you are saying has merit though, I was a Richards owner last year and was often frustrated by some of the line combos he ended up on and it seemed to me as well that he was scoring most of his points on the PP because he would be paired with Vinny and St. Louis. So in the interest of investigating this point I pulled the actual stats for 07-08 and here\'s what I got.

TB: if we consider the \"stars\" on TB to be St. Louis and Lecavilier, Richards played with at least one of them 39.6% of the time ES and 77.7% of the time on the PP. He scored 51 pts on TB last year, 25 of them were on the PP, 2 were SH and the remainder were ES

I\'ll run Dallas as well if you\'d like to compare, just let me know who you would consider \"star\" pairings on the Stars. To Playmaker\'s point, for exaple, even though Modano\'s role is not what it once was its hard to argue that he\'s not a benefit to play with.

I completely agree that Modano is a benefit to play with.
Dallas doesn\'t have the same star power as TB, just above average players. Which having better even strength players and lesser Powerplay pals won\'t help his numbers climb to the 80 + people are thinking....

[playmaker26]

Gaborlick wrote:

i agree, but it didn\'t last, if there was some consistency to it, I would think he was better that the hype (not that there is lots of hype, but just lack of a better word.)

I see your point with Sakic. But Sakic still has the star power to make those around him better. I think that Richards is a good player, but maybe doesn\'t have the drive to work as hard as he used to...

You\'re saying he doesn\'t have the drive to work as hard as he used too. What basis do you have to make a comment like this? OK, he had a down year but he was playing with shit players. He still put up respectable numbers. And let me add they were the worst team in the league.

I\'m not saying he\'s going to put up those numbers he used too but he\'s 28 years old and on a better team. You\'re making comments that have no proof whatsoever applying to his work ethic.

[mister_mcgoo]

Gaborlick wrote:

I completely agree that Modano is a benefit to play with.
Dallas doesn\'t have the same star power as TB, just above average players. Which having better even strength players and lesser Powerplay pals won\'t help his numbers climb to the 80 + people are thinking....

hmmm, I\'m not sure what you mean by \"star power\" then...do you mean that you have to score 100 pts a year to qualify? Because even though he\'s in the twilight of his career I consider Modano a \"star\" player...the guy\'s currently got 1283 pts which is good for 31st overall all-time and he joined the 500 goal club a couple years ago, that\'s a pretty prestigious group. Or what about a guy like Jere Lehtinen? Is he not a star because he\'s defensively minded? I think his teammates would vehemently disagree.

I think you\'re putting too much stock in guys like Lecav and St. Louis, just because you have scorers like that on a team doesn\'t make the team or the other players successful, ask Atlanta and Kovalchuk about that. Dallas had a good team last year (8th overall) and with Richards for a full season I think they\'ll be even better this year. TB was horrible (dead last in the league), I think its testament to Richards talent that he scored 62 pts on that shitty a team, getting 2nd line minutes and unfavorable line pairings. In Dallas I see no reason why he cant be a 70-80 pt guy with upside.

[playmaker26]

mister_mcgoo wrote:

Gaborlick wrote:

I completely agree that Modano is a benefit to play with.
Dallas doesn\'t have the same star power as TB, just above average players. Which having better even strength players and lesser Powerplay pals won\'t help his numbers climb to the 80 + people are thinking....

hmmm, I\'m not sure what you mean by \"star power\" then...do you mean that you have to score 100 pts a year to qualify? Because even though he\'s in the twilight of his career I consider Modano a \"star\" player...the guy\'s currently got 1283 pts which is good for 31st overall all-time and he joined the 500 goal club a couple years ago, that\'s a pretty prestigious group. Or what about a guy like Jere Lehtinen? Is he not a star because he\'s defensively minded? I think his teammates would vehemently disagree.

I think you\'re putting too much stock in guys like Lecav and St. Louis, just because you have scorers like that on a team doesn\'t make the team or the other players successful, ask Atlanta and Kovalchuk about that. Dallas had a good team last year (8th overall) and with Richards for a full season I think they\'ll be even better this year. TB was horrible (dead last in the league), I think its testament to Richards talent that he scored 62 pts on that shitty a team, getting 2nd line minutes and unfavorable line pairings. In Dallas I see no reason why he cant be a 70-80 pt guy with upside.

+1. Well put.

[Gaborlick]

mister_mcgoo wrote:

Gaborlick wrote:

I completely agree that Modano is a benefit to play with.
Dallas doesn\'t have the same star power as TB, just above average players. Which having better even strength players and lesser Powerplay pals won\'t help his numbers climb to the 80 + people are thinking....

hmmm, I\'m not sure what you mean by \"star power\" then...do you mean that you have to score 100 pts a year to qualify? Because even though he\'s in the twilight of his career I consider Modano a \"star\" player...the guy\'s currently got 1283 pts which is good for 31st overall all-time and he joined the 500 goal club a couple years ago, that\'s a pretty prestigious group. Or what about a guy like Jere Lehtinen? Is he not a star because he\'s defensively minded? I think his teammates would vehemently disagree.

I think you\'re putting too much stock in guys like Lecav and St. Louis, just because you have scorers like that on a team doesn\'t make the team or the other players successful, ask Atlanta and Kovalchuk about that. Dallas had a good team last year (8th overall) and with Richards for a full season I think they\'ll be even better this year. TB was horrible (dead last in the league), I think its testament to Richards talent that he scored 62 pts on that shitty a team, getting 2nd line minutes and unfavorable line pairings. In Dallas I see no reason why he cant be a 70-80 pt guy with upside.

you slay me :+) Let\'s get back, I think Dallas doesn\'t have the high powered Star SCORING players. Yes they have an excellent team, they are defensively minded and had a great season and will have a better season.

I don\'t think that with Dallas, Richards has the same top scoring players to play on the powerplay with. I think that his even strength lines mates are better and he will make up for some points there.

I do think that the top PP unit on Dallas will produce less than the Richards/Lecav/St. L combo.

In the end I think with these two factors it will level out his point totals and keep him between 65-75 and not make it to the 80-90 range because of Dallas.

I miss Jagr :dry: