Ultimate Karlsson Rant

[chuckcouples]

Dutch, think about this. Weber had Suter, and now he has Josi, not to mention a rising Seth Jones. Keith has Seabrook, and an underrated Hjarlmarlsson. Chara had a very good Seidenberg for years and now has Hamilton, and last year had Boychuk too, not too shabby. Subban has Markov. And I'd say each of those teams has better forward support than Karlsson has had in Ottawa. Karlsson is going to be ridiculous (more so than he is now) when guys like Cowen and Ceci mature - or if he had Philips in his prime.

Erik Karlsson normally plays with Marc Methot who, based on the hockey knowledge of the Team Canada 2014 Olympic team executives, is the 5th best left handed shooting Canadian defensemen in the NHL.

[junyab]

I agree with you but Mike Green was out of this world good that one or two year too!

Green was? Or was it just the fact that he was on the ice when Ovie and Backstrom were running up 100pt seasons. He complimented them, yes, but he was in no way responsible for the offense the Caps had those 2 years.

[ShawneePanthers]

Not just one bad game, he's been at best mediocre this whole season at defense. Bad in both games vs Chicago, and I'll never forget the sloppiness of the "outlet pass" he made that was intercepted by Severson for a goal (who by the way is a better shot).

[deantime419]

Karlsson is also an elite skater which he can use to recover from risky plays in the offensive zone. I don't think Green is quite on his level in that regard.

[ross10019]

Erik Karlsson normally plays with Marc Methot who, based on the hockey knowledge of the Team Canada 2014 Olympic team executives, is the 5th best left handed shooting Canadian defensemen in the NHL.

And who is, wait for it, NOT PLAYING YET THIS YEAR DUE TO A CONTRACT DISPUTE!!! I agree Methot is a very good partner for Karlsson, to me it goes a long way to explaining his bad start, he's stuck with an aging and far less effective Chris Philips. Astounding stat - Philips is playing an average of 23:55 this year, which is almost 5 minutes higher than the minutes he played last year and 1.5 minutes higher than his high water mark in his career! Anyone wonder why the Sens are playing awful D? Look no further.

Even with Methot, you don't yet have another solid pairing in Ottawa that can bear the load of the other team's top lines. This is where the comparisons with other teams comes in. It will come in time, especially when Cowen develops.

[2014olympicgold]

Let’s all state the obvious of Karlsson, his offense is better than his defense! Great thread! He’s a risk taker when it comes to moving the puck, risks have consequences. For a player who creates almost all the offensive plays for one team is insane. Didn’t Karlsson play great defensively (for him) in the Olympics? I’d chalk that up to him not having to push the offense all by himself. He’s improved his defense, but his game is all about offense, everyone knows it. He’s the equivalent of an 80-85pt forward. If you take his points (74) and divide that by the average d points (30ish), then times that by the average forward pts (45?), that should give you a decent idea of his ceiling as a forward

=74/35=2.11
2.11*45=95pts

You can insult his d play, but his offensive talent is worth the risk.

[rataylor22]

Let’s all state the obvious of Karlsson, his offense is better than his defense! Great thread! He’s a risk taker when it comes to moving the puck, risks have consequences. For a player who creates almost all the offensive plays for one team is insane. Didn’t Karlsson play great defensively (for him) in the Olympics? I’d chalk that up to him not having to push the offense all by himself. He’s improved his defense, but his game is all about offense, everyone knows it. He’s the equivalent of an 80-85pt forward. If you take his points (74) and divide that by the average d points (30ish), then times that by the average forward pts (45?), that should give you a decent idea of his ceiling as a forward

=74/35=2.11
2.11*45=95pts

You can insult his d play, but his offensive talent is worth the risk.

I don't really think it works that way. Karlsson wouldn't be 95 point forward, in fact he probably would get more points as a dman than a forward.

[2014olympicgold]

I don't really think it works that way. Karlsson wouldn't be 95 point forward, in fact he probably would get more points as a dman than a forward.

I was trying to say a comparison to a forward. not saying he would get that amount if he played as a forward. 70pt d-man is worth more than a 70pt forward (in fantasy). so a 70pt d-man is more of a 85-90pt forward. crued, but a way to say he's as valuable as a teams top player.

[Hoopo]

-33 proves he's a liability. It's not an opinion it's a clear fact.

No it is absolutely not and that's just bad analysis. +/- is as much a product of being on a bad team as anything else. Even Chara has had brutal +/-, his first year in Boston he was a minus-21. Ference was a minus-18 last year. Markov was a minus-9 in a lockout-shortened season. Girodano was a minus-7 that year. Brian Campbell was a minus-22. Most people don't consider these guys defensive liabilities and yet they have crap +/-. Go figure.

EDIT: yikes not =/-, +/-.

[rataylor22]

I was trying to say a comparison to a forward. not saying he would get that amount if he played as a forward. 70pt d-man is worth more than a 70pt forward (in fantasy). so a 70pt d-man is more of a 85-90pt forward. crued, but a way to say he's as valuable as a teams top player.

Yea I think this was more of a real value rather than fantasy value thread.

[Big Ev]

Remember Sandis Ozolinsh? He's basically a slightly better version of that...a little better offensively and an average defender.

If the Norris is truly for the "top defensive player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position" then Karlsson should never win it any year that Shea Weber is healthy and doing what he always does. Not even close. But the NHL awards have become about politics and league marketability more than they are about awarding the most deserving each year.

The loss of Spezza has hurt the Sens far more than any homer will ever acknowledge...and to be fair I 'get' why they wanted him gone but you simply don't replace that hole with nothing and expect to be anywhere close to the same team. The Sens seem perpetually 2 steps forward, 3 steps back, with the odd 3-2 season mixed in. It's a down year and Karlsson (and his owners) are feeling it firsthand

WTF is this shit? They're already a better team this year. Scoring more goals =/= better team. Check out what Spezza has done for the Stars.

Spezza leaving has definitely NOT hurt the team.

and league marketability? Nobody cares about Ottawa. Nobody even knows who Erik Karlsson is. Shea Weber is more marketable than he is.

[Big Ev]

NHL TOTALS 325gp 66g 179a 245p +/- -33

The guy wins the Norris while being a liability on the ice. The morons voting should understand it's for the best defenceman in the league not the highest scoring. Ridiculous. No way in hell he deserved that. Perhaps the league should make a new trophy for the highest scoring D-man. He could win that without controversy.

Shouldn't a Norris winner be a responsible D-man lol! I guess that's to much to ask. Brutal!

The morons aren't the ones voting....

If you know a thing or two you would realize he was fantastic at both ends in his Norris year. But you don't.

[Big Ev]

Not just one bad game, he's been at best mediocre this whole season at defense. Bad in both games vs Chicago, and I'll never forget the sloppiness of the "outlet pass" he made that was intercepted by Severson for a goal (who by the way is a better shot).

I'm sure you've seen every game.

and let's criticize an offensive player for a giveaway. Makes sense.

[2014olympicgold]

I guess I wrote fantasy wise points because it was in the “Keeper League –D-man Discussion” group. But I guess I can still use the point of when he was in the Olympics. He did get 8pts, 0PIMs in 6 games, but he was actually solid defensively. I think he was a +5. Doughty was and Weber were +4 and +5 respectively. His skill set is more directed at the larger ice, but I think he gets blamed a lot because he is trying to force it more in Ottawa.

He’s a guy who you have to live with the negatives. He’s a peacock, you gotta let him fly. Once that team starts growing, I think his +/- will even out (+10ish), and the forwards actually control the offensive rhythm, Karlsson will become more of a Keith d-man numbers wise. A 55-65pt d-man, whose mind is D first, but offense is such a close 2^nd.

[Rodgort]

This is an odd thread haha.

Karlsson is awesome, I love watching him play. There is my rant