Toronto Blue Jays

[blayze]

Said it before and will say it again. Gibby is the right guy for the job. Manager really doesn't do a whole lot on MLB teams. They just need someone to maintain the clubhouse IMO, which is exactly what he brings. I think his bullpen management issues are overblown personally.

Look, the bottom line is that if you want to look for somewhere to point a finger, you really can't point them at anyone aside from the guy that everyone in this city treats like a god, which is AA. He assembled a fantastic roster full of exciting players. But guess what, he assembled a slugging lineup. The same lineup that everyone has loved to watch for the past two years, and what people don't complain about 90% of the year except for when shit hits the fan. When you roster a high-risk high-reward offense like the Jays have, you're eventually going to hit a power outage. You just hope that it doesn't come at the wrong time. Unfortunately this year, it did (April, September, this past week). You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I'm honestly kind of getting exhausted with how people are always looking for blame. The fact is the lineup played out as it was designed to. It just didn't work out. I still quite frankly believe that on paper this is one of the top teams in the league and had potential to win it all, but as with everything else, timing is everything.

Yes this is a slugging team that depends on the long ball, but that's being way too broad here.

The bluejays bats were terrible this series. Last year, one of the reasons they were so good was because they had more discipline... took a lot of walks... were able to string together hits, and came through in the crucial moments (RISP, 2 Outs, etc).

This series, the only batter who had smart, disciplined at-bats was JD. Everyone was swinging for the fences. Everyone seemed to ground into double plays whenever we had a runner on. It's not as simple as having a power outage or going hot and cold... they had terrible, undisciplined at bats. They were not batting like they normally do and played themselves out of the series.

Indians batted .168 for **** sake... most teams should be able to take a series with the opposition batting .168, power outage or not.

[Axeman33]

Said it before and will say it again. Gibby is the right guy for the job. Manager really doesn't do a whole lot on MLB teams. They just need someone to maintain the clubhouse IMO, which is exactly what he brings. I think his bullpen management issues are overblown personally.

Look, the bottom line is that if you want to look for somewhere to point a finger, you really can't point them at anyone aside from the guy that everyone in this city treats like a god, which is AA. He assembled a fantastic roster full of exciting players. But guess what, he assembled a slugging lineup. The same lineup that everyone has loved to watch for the past two years, and what people don't complain about 90% of the year except for when shit hits the fan. When you roster a high-risk high-reward offense like the Jays have, you're eventually going to hit a power outage. You just hope that it doesn't come at the wrong time. Unfortunately this year, it did (April, September, this past week). You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I'm honestly kind of getting exhausted with how people are always looking for blame. The fact is the lineup played out as it was designed to. It just didn't work out. I still quite frankly believe that on paper this is one of the top teams in the league and had potential to win it all, but as with everything else, timing is everything.

I agree to some extent but the one thing that managers DO control in the middle of a game is their pitching staff, and that's where I think Gibbons is an idiot. I think he has a tendency to leave guys in too long, or takes guys out too early or simply at the wrong time. He also relies too much on too few pitchers in his bullpen.

The Jays had one of the leagues best rotations this year, and didn't have a complete game by a starter at all because Gibbons would pull his starters before they had the chance. Even with Estrada up 10-1 a couple weeks ago against the Rangers, he had one out in the 9th and gets pulled because he gave up that one run. Let the kid finish it Gibby you idiot!!

He is an idiot when it comes to his pitchers.

[blayze]

I think Gibbons is an idiot. I think he has a tendency to leave guys in too long, or takes guys out too early or simply at the wrong time.

So which one is it? You've basically covered every permutation there lol

[Axeman33]

So which one is it? You've basically covered every permutation there lol

All of the above. He doesn't know when to leave guys in or when to take them out. He doesn't control his pitching staff well. That's one of the biggest things a manager needs to do during a game.

[hockeyrobot]

All of the above. He doesn't know when to leave guys in or when to take them out. He doesn't control his pitching staff well. That's one of the biggest things a manager needs to do during a game.

I dunno...they did have the best rotation in the league. Are you saying the bullpen was the worst because of Gibbons? Not because it was a couple randoms thrown together?? To say this series is on Gibbons or the pitching is insane anyway.

[Axeman33]

I dunno...they did have the best rotation in the league. Are you saying the bullpen was the worst because of Gibbons? Not because it was a couple randoms thrown together?? To say this series is on Gibbons or the pitching is insane anyway.

I am not basing my opinion on the playoffs. I am basing this on watching 90% of the Blue Jays games the past few years Gibbons has been the manager of the Jays. If you go back through this big ass thread, you will see I have been of this opinion of Gibbons for quite some time now.

[rataylor22]

I agree to some extent but the one thing that managers DO control in the middle of a game is their pitching staff, and that's where I think Gibbons is an idiot. I think he has a tendency to leave guys in too long, or takes guys out too early or simply at the wrong time. He also relies too much on too few pitchers in his bullpen.

The Jays had one of the leagues best rotations this year, and didn't have a complete game by a starter at all because Gibbons would pull his starters before they had the chance. Even with Estrada up 10-1 a couple weeks ago against the Rangers, he had one out in the 9th and gets pulled because he gave up that one run. Let the kid finish it Gibby you idiot!!

He is an idiot when it comes to his pitchers.

Really now? Were mad because he saved some pitches from one of his best starters and didn't give him a complete game? That's like people being mad Bell was still in the game in that Chiefs/Steelers game late in the fourth quarter, then being mad that they took him out and DeAngelo got the touchdown. If Bell blows out his knee trying to get a touchdown in the fourth quarter of a 36-7 game, everyone is calling for Tomlin's head. If Estrada is showing some signs of fatigue, but they leave him in in a blowout for the "complete game" and he rips apart his elbow, now everyone's talking about how Gibby is an idiot for leaving him in. Give your head a shake man.

[The Black Panther]

It seems pretty clear/obvious that I was talking about Bautista.

Actually I was referring to this quote:

Originally Posted by Slug As much fun as it was watching this year's team. I won't miss Bautista or Dickey at all. Can't stand the whining and constant excuses.

Then you said;
Oh how the heroes fall

[bondon]

I am not basing my opinion on the playoffs. I am basing this on watching 90% of the Blue Jays games the past few years Gibbons has been the manager of the Jays. If you go back through this big ass thread, you will see I have been of this opinion of Gibbons for quite some time now.

Yeah, I definitely remember you being one of the more vocal people re: Gibby.

I just simply don't agree with you tbh. Don't get me wrong. I don't think Gibby is completely faultless, and if you look through this thread you'll see me question his decisions and be really critical at times. But honestly, looking at the body of work and what this team needs from its manager, I think he's the right guy for the job.

[Axeman33]

Really now? Were mad because he saved some pitches from one of his best starters and didn't give him a complete game? That's like people being mad Bell was still in the game in that Chiefs/Steelers game late in the fourth quarter, then being mad that they took him out and DeAngelo got the touchdown. If Bell blows out his knee trying to get a touchdown in the fourth quarter of a 36-7 game, everyone is calling for Tomlin's head. If Estrada is showing some signs of fatigue, but they leave him in in a blowout for the "complete game" and he rips apart his elbow, now everyone's talking about how Gibby is an idiot for leaving him in. Give your head a shake man.

Again, I am not basing my opinion on this years playoffs. I was simply using that ONE example because it's the one everyone here will remember. My opinion is based on watching the majority of Jays games for YEARS. My head doesn't need any shaking.

And if you go back to that ONE start I gave as an example, Estrada wasn't even at 100 pitches at the time Gibbons took him out. He had plenty left in the tank.

[rataylor22]

Again, I am not basing my opinion on this years playoffs. I was simply using that ONE example because it's the one everyone here will remember. My opinion is based on watching the majority of Jays games for YEARS. My head doesn't need any shaking.

And if you go back to that ONE start I gave as an example, Estrada wasn't even at 100 pitches at the time Gibbons took him out. He had plenty left in the tank.

He also had no reason to stay in. Your ONE example extends to your general opinion, which is at best, nitpicky, and at worst, creating issues that don't exist due to personal bias.

[2014olympicgold]

I think Toronto fans are just mad in general today lol.

[Axeman33]

He also had no reason to stay in. Your ONE example extends to your general opinion, which is at best, nitpicky, and at worst, creating issues that don't exist due to personal bias.

Ya, you're right, there was no reason for him to stay in, other than he was two outs from his first career complete game, up 10-1 in a huge game he had dominated all day long. No reason at all. Starting pitchers hate finishing those games.

Again, one example.

[LawMan]

Not a huge surprise but the Jays extended Qualifying Offers to Bautista and Encarnacion today ($17.2m), but not Michael Saunders.

Edwin will be an easy reject obviously as he is due to get a massive deal. Does anyone think their is any chance Bautista takes the 1-year deal in an effort to have a "show me" year? His ask in pre-season was allegedly over $25m per year for 4+ years if I remember correctly. Given the injury filled down year he had any chance he takes 1-year to try and earn a massive deal? He's also 36 so every year he signs is a year he can't get in a big deal. We'll find out in a week or sooner I guess.

[JagrBomb]

bye bye eddie and jose, thanks for the memories.