Toronto Blue Jays

[Axeman33]

That was my point in regards to taking him out once Dickey went out. Get his bat out of there as well.

[2014olympicgold]

That was my point in regards to taking him out once Dickey went out. Get his bat out of there as well.

But if Gibbons isn’t going to put Martin in, it’s something that just has to be lived with.

[LawMan]

Ugly, Ugly way to lose a game. Thole letting that ball get by him, with the winning run on 3rd, is completely unexcusable. Just one inning earlier I was giving him props for his great throw to get the runner at 2nd too.

I understand Gibby's desire to leave Thole in the game, catcher's need rest and it's easier (which Gibby loves) to simply give Martin the whole night off when Dickey pitches but it Thole keeps playing like this it may force Gibby's hand into pulling Thole with Dickey. The double whammy of Gibby starting Thole with Dickey is that you combine your worst starting pitcher with your worst offensive lineup (losing Martin's bat) so now you've got a pitcher giving up more runs with an offense scoring less, that's a tough way to win games.

[TheWhale]

I still laugh at the amount of hate Dickey gets. The guy always starts his seasons off slow and then really comes on on the 2nd half. He has pitched well in 2 (maybe 3) of his 4 starts which is far better than his past few Aprils. He even pitched well yesterday after the first inning. Is he the Jays worst starter? As of now yes. But What is that really saying? The Jays starting pitching has been amazing to start the year and one of the leagues best in ERA. Bad pitchers do not pitch 200 innings every year.

The Jays had zero issues getting on base while down 3-0 and they had Jimenez at 100 pitches by the 5th. Yes Thole missed a ball he should have had but to blame the loss on him is not fair. And I can't stand the fact he has a roster spot. But Martin can't catch every game. Especially if this team hopes to play well into the fall.

Saunders cost the Jays 2 runs by his base running mishaps. And the Jays stranded 10 runners. Not to mention a flukey 2 out nubber that was just out of Biagini's reach and just slow enough so Tulo didn't have a play. This was a game that got away that should have been won. But there is plenty of reasons why they lost and for me Dickey and Thole aren't even the two I would blame first.

[TheWhale]

Ugly, Ugly way to lose a game. Thole letting that ball get by him, with the winning run on 3rd, is completely unexcusable. Just one inning earlier I was giving him props for his great throw to get the runner at 2nd too.

I understand Gibby's desire to leave Thole in the game, catcher's need rest and it's easier (which Gibby loves) to simply give Martin the whole night off when Dickey pitches but it Thole keeps playing like this it may force Gibby's hand into pulling Thole with Dickey. The double whammy of Gibby starting Thole with Dickey is that you combine your worst starting pitcher with your worst offensive lineup (losing Martin's bat) so now you've got a pitcher giving up more runs with an offense scoring less, that's a tough way to win games.

Dickey has allowed 1 more run this year than Stroman who leads the team in wins. So it's not like the Jays are really handicapped in that department when Dickey is on the hill.

[2014olympicgold]

I still laugh at the amount of hate Dickey gets. The guy always starts his seasons off slow and then really comes on on the 2nd half. He has pitched well in 2 (maybe 3) of his 4 starts which is far better than his past few Aprils. He even pitched well yesterday after the first inning. Is he the Jays worst starter? As of now yes. But What is that really saying? The Jays starting pitching has been amazing to start the year and one of the leagues best in ERA. Bad pitchers do not pitch 200 innings every year.

The Jays had zero issues getting on base while down 3-0 and they had Jimenez at 100 pitches by the 5th. Yes Thole missed a ball he should have had but to blame the loss on him is not fair. And I can't stand the fact he has a roster spot. But Martin can't catch every game. Especially if this team hopes to play well into the fall.

Saunders cost the Jays 2 runs by his base running mishaps. And the Jays stranded 10 runners. Not to mention a flukey 2 out nubber that was just out of Biagini's reach and just slow enough so Tulo didn't have a play. This was a game that got away that should have been won. But there is plenty of reasons why they lost and for me Dickey and Thole aren't even the two I would blame first.

2?
He almost cost 1, but was lucky enough to get put in by EE. But he didn’t technically cost a run, because he was lucky. What’s the 2^nd baserunning you mention?

[LawMan]

Dickey has allowed 1 more run this year than Stroman who leads the team in wins. So it's not like the Jays are really handicapped in that department when Dickey is on the hill.

Yeah I don't have a huge problem with Dickey as our #4/5 starter my complaint was more with Thole, and how when you have to start him with one of your lower end starters then it's a double whammy (triple when he can't stop pass balls) to your chances of winning. I realize it's a small sample size but I don't remember Martin having nearly this much trouble catching the knuckleball last year...

[TheWhale]

2?
He almost cost 1, but was lucky enough to get put in by EE. But he didn’t technically cost a run, because he was lucky. What’s the 2^nd baserunning you mention?

You're right. It didn't cost them a run. It could have cost then two runs. But maybe only one. The other one that I mentioned was him getting doubled up in the first inning. Being on 3rd he shouldn't have been running on contact

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Yeah I don't have a huge problem with Dickey as our #4/5 starter my complaint was more with Thole, and how when you have to start him with one of your lower end starters then it's a double whammy (triple when he can't stop pass balls) to your chances of winning. I realize it's a small sample size but I don't remember Martin having nearly this much trouble catching the knuckleball last year...

I don't think Martin had trouble catching the knuckler. It was just he found it exhausting. At least I vaguely remember hearing that.

[2014olympicgold]

You're right. It didn't cost them a run. It could have cost then two runs. But maybe only one. The other one that I mentioned was him getting doubled up in the first inning. Being on 3rd he shouldn't have been running on contact

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I don't think Martin had trouble catching the knuckler. It was just he found it exhausting. At least I vaguely remember hearing that.

Oh ya, that was a gamble that shouldn’t have been taken with Tulo on deck. If it was a guy on a team that doesn’t have the hitting pedigree of the Jays, I’d say it was just bad luck. But he shouldn’t be as aggressive.

And ya, Martin did a very good job catching Dickey, but he kept taking it off the thumb where there’s little padding. And he was up and down, and moving left and right blocking it. So I can see the exhaustion side. Thole does do a good job getting his glove to do most of the work, but that backfires majorly if he misses it.

[LawMan]

I don't think Martin had trouble catching the knuckler. It was just he found it exhausting. At least I vaguely remember hearing that.

I completely understand the idea that Martin (and all catcher's) should get some days off. An easy way to do that is have one guy in your rotation who has the backup catcher, last year it was Estrada with Navarro catching him. This year since the backup is Thole a "knuckeball specialist" it makes sense he catches when Dickey is pitching Thole catches and Martin takes the night off. Hopefully Thole has just had a tough start behind the plate and after a few more games he'll get the pass balls under control.

Was fairly ironic that I've been bitching about Thole and singing Martin's praises and then last night Martin's pass ball leads to the winning run...

[2014olympicgold]

Funny how Thole is actually hitting better than Martin

Martin:
3R, 0HR, 4RBI, 0SB, 154Avg, 410OPS on 59 plate appearances
Thole:
1R, 1HR, 1RBI, 0SB, 167Avg, 544OPS on 19 plate appearances

[2014olympicgold]

So Cecil last yr was the closer and sucked, then moved to set up and rocked. Where do you move him now too? Buffalo?

[Axeman33]

The bullpen is a tad embarrassing right now.

I read on Rotoworld yesterday that they were in discussions with the Cardinals for Matt Adams as well.

[2014olympicgold]

I get why STC don’t want him, but why do the Jays? He wasn’t playing well prior to his injuries last yr, doesn’t hit for average, and doesn’t have a lot of power left. The assets used for Adams should be used on a BP arm.

I know it would be a depth move, but EE, Smoak, and Bautista can play 1B, why a 3^rd? And in 78-odd games Colly is back for the last half of the season (Not eligible for playoffs)

[bondon]

4 pitch walk to the number 9 hitter smh.

Also does Matt Albers always get that fired up or was he trying to make fun of Stroman and his tendency to get fired up