Filatov vs Radulov

[mister_mcgoo]

Seeds of Grapes wrote:

I\'m the last guy in the world that will normally support Rads, everytime he comes up I seem get caught in the middle of these arguments with owners who have eaten a few too many brownies and start spouting inanity like 100+ pts and the like. Personally i think hes a \'minor\' bust and will continue to be one for most of his career (in other words a serviceable 65-75 pt forward who may have a single career season of 80+).

That would be fair, IF Radulov had been given every opportunity and had failed to produce (according to your description, like Saku Koivu). However, he had been relegated to the 2nd and 3rd lines for most of the season.

Radulov has all of the tools to be one of the best in the league.

well I hate to call bullshit on you but he spent the majority of the time paired with Arnott and Dumont...I was under the impression that they were the top line in NSH are they not?

[big_dl]

that\'s kind of true, he did spend a good portion of the 2nd part of the year with Arnott and Dumont and coincidentally that\'s when his production picked up. Having said that he often gets bumped off the PP not to mention the top line based on whatever bowel movement Trotz had during the preceding intermission. Based on this it\'s hard to say that A-Rad had a firm spot on the top line at any point of the season. I\'m convinced that Trotz doesnt like scoring goals and as such benched A-Rad whenever the team looks too good.

[Seeds of Grapes]

well I hate to call bullshit on you but he spent the majority of the time paired with Arnott and Dumont...I was under the impression that they were the top line in NSH are they not?

Actually, you have your facts wrong. For example, from this website:

\"Nashville - updated: April 11
Jan Hlavac(lw) - Jason Arnott(c) - J.P. Dumont(rw)
Martin Erat(lw,rw) - Radek Bonk(c) - Alexander Radulov(rw)
Vern Fiddler(c,lw)- Scott Nichol(c) - Jerred Smithson(c)
Jordin Tootoo(rw) - Rich Peverley(c) - Brandon Bochenski(rw)

Extras: Steve Sullivan(rw) IR - Jed Ortmeyer(rw) IR - David Legwand(c) DTD - Darcy Hordichuk(lw)

Marek Zidlicky - Ryan Suter
Greg Zanon - Shea Weber
Dan Hamhuis - Greg de Vries

Extras: Kevin Klein - Ville Koistenen

Last game vs Det Game 1
Dan Ellis: 2GA 37 Saves
Chris Mason:

PP#1
Jan Hlavac - Jason Arnott - J.P. Dumont
Marek Zidlicky - Ryan Suter
PP#2
Martin Erat - Radek Bonk - Alexander Radulov
Marek Zidlicky - Shea Weber
Primary Penalty Killers
Vern Fiddler - Scott Nichol
Greg De Vries - Greg Zanon

Crazynotes: Trotz continues to keep Radulov off the top line\"



Don\'t take my word for it. Confirm with others.


Edited by Crazynuck: I will confirm that Radulov spent little time on the top line during the last 15 games of the season. I updated the lineup after every game and watched a fair share of them myself. Don\'t have the exact number but he was like 6th on the team in PP mins played. Its also true that he spent 2 or 4 games on the 3rd line. Trotz better get fired soon so that we can see what Rads can really do. I\'m not a Rad fan and don\'t own him but I like to see the best out of all NHL players and I think Trotz is holding him back.

[mister_mcgoo]

wtf is that supposed to be, some random sample from some game he played in? lol...I could choose a dozen other snapshots over the course of the year from games where he played on the top line but that wouldn\'t prove anything more than you just did. If you wanna argue a point that hard, dispense with the speculation and back it up with real data.

do this, goto: http://frozenpool.com, choose \'Line Combinations\' from the left nav, pick Radulov and run the numbers. He spent the bulk of his time on the top line though as many of you have pointed he got short changed on the PP, mostly relegated to the #2 PP. So yes I\'ll agree with you if you want to argue that he could be given MORE of a chance to produce but you folks that are whining that he\'s spent the whole season on the 3rd line need to get a grip on reality

edit by crazynuck: here are the raw facts off of frozenpool.com for radulov for the last 10 games of the season. The argument was for the second half of the season not the full season. Also 2nd and 3rd line not just 3rd line. Lets keep the facts straight.

# of shifts
249 EV BONK,RADEK - ERAT,MARTIN - RADULOV,ALEXANDER
156 EV ARNOTT,JASON - DUMONT,JEAN-PIERRE - RADULOV,ALEXANDER

round 3 ding ding

[Seeds of Grapes]

McGoo, It is difficult to continue to deal with you politely in the face of your inexplicable antagonsim and confrontationalism.

So I concede. Big_dl, Dobber (who drafted the line combos I posted) and Crazynuck (who added a note to my comment) are all wrong. So is anyone else who may agree with the three of us that Radulov was not used primarilly as a 1st liner.

You are right.

Edit by Crazynuck: First sorry for all the edits but if I post #5000 Praba will kill me. As for the line combo\'s I am responsible for the line combo\'s drafted not Dobber. Each division is looked after by a moderator. The central divison was covered by myself for the second half of the season.

Just trying to keep the facts straight... otherwise there is no point to debate.

[Seeds of Grapes]

Crazynuck, I am gonna find you and.... give you some karma!

[mister_mcgoo]

edit by crazynuck: here are the raw facts off of frozenpool.com for radulov for the last 10 games of the season. The argument was for the secon half of the season not the full season. Also 2nd and 3rd line not just 3rd line. Lets keep the facts straight.

# of shifts
249 EV BONK,RADEK - ERAT,MARTIN - RADULOV,ALEXANDER
156 EV ARNOTT,JASON - DUMONT,JEAN-PIERRE - RADULOV,ALEXANDER

round 3 ding ding

er no actually, this is the original mis-informed post I replied to and how this argument started, feel free to check the thread, I don\'t have numbers for what he did for the last 15 games of the season (but if he wasn\'t playing much 1st line time by then I would argue that that supports my argument more than yours, heehee...i.e. the staff doesn\'t have the confidence that he is 1st line worthy):

Seeds of Grapes wrote:

That would be fair, IF Radulov had been given every opportunity and had failed to produce (according to your description, like Saku Koivu). However, he had been relegated to the 2nd and 3rd lines for most of the season.

Radulov has all of the tools to be one of the best in the league.

I\'m fully willing to entertain the possibility that frozenpool is wrong, but the season numbers jived perfectly with what my impression was of his linemates this season (i.e. mostly on the 1st line but still shuffled around alot and missing out on top PP time)

to quote Apollo Creed: \"ding, ding\"

[Crazynuck]

well done mister_mcgoo you got me to post #5000 cause I just can\'t stand editing all the posts anymore due to this great thread.

mister_mcgoo wrote:
er no actually, this is the original mis-informed post I replied to and how this argument started, feel free to check the thread, I don\'t have numbers for what he did for the last 15 games of the season (but if he wasn\'t playing much 1st line time by then I would argue that that supports my argument more than yours, heehee):

I\'m confused on how this supports your argument???
I\'m just stating that Radulov spent a good portion of the 2nd half of the season on the 2nd line. (2 or 3 games on the 3rd).

249 EV BONK,RADEK - ERAT,MARTIN - RADULOV,ALEXANDER

156 EV ARNOTT,JASON - DUMONT,JEAN-PIERRE - RADULOV,ALEXANDER

This is just a sample of the last 10 games. He actually played more on the 2nd line than those stats show. I updated the lineup after every game. Its not just a snapshot.

[Seeds of Grapes]

Here is a simplified version of what happened:

Mcgoo: Radulov is a bust.

Seeds: Not a bust, as he was not yet relied on as a top line player.

Argument: He [was/was not] on the top line for most of the season. This is a factual argument, and you, Mcgoo, are on the wrong side of the facts. Even so;

McGoo:

...but still shuffled around alot and missing out on top PP time

How then can you say that Radulov is a bust?

Rhetorical question.

[Crazynuck]

Fact #1: Most of the season Radulov was on the top line.

Fact #2: Most of the 2nd half of the season Radulov was on the 2nd line.

[Seeds of Grapes]

C\'mon... we are not high schoolers arguing that 60% = most of the time.

We are talking about Radulov as being a 100 pointer or a bust. In order to be a 100 pointer, one has to be given the opportunity to get 100 points. Players in this category include Thornton, Sidney, Heatley, AO, Kovalchuk, Vinnie, etc...

These are all top line players. In this context, Arod is not a top line player. I really don\'t care if he spent 60% or 63% of his time on the top line - he was not relied upon like any of the other aforementioned players were.

It is thus not possible to call him a bust.

He may become a bust, but at this moment of time, we do not know. I suspect he will hit 100 points within the next three years (but I cannot say definitively).

[mister_mcgoo]

Crazynuck wrote:

Fact #1: Most of the season Radulov was on the top line.

Fact #2: Most of the 2nd half of the season Radulov was on the 2nd line.

thank you for bringing some modicum of sanity to this post Nucks, and btw, congrats on 5000.

Seeds, you\'d be advised to not to blatantly misquote someone on a message board, cause see the thing about it is, anyone who wants to can read the original posts and see that you\'re a jackass and are misrepresenting the argument. I NEVER said he was a bust, I said he was a \'minor bust\', in other words he is not living up to the lofty predictions that 90% if people had him pegged for in his first two seasons but he\'s still playing decent.

Argument: He [was/was not] on the top line for most of the season. This is a factual argument, and you, Mcgoo, are on the wrong side of the facts. Even so;

dude, stop being ignorant and go check the numbers, unlike you i\'m not making this shit up, I\'m basing it off real stats. Nucks has confirmed this so at least take the time to go review the numbers instead of digging yourself deeper

[Crazynuck]

Great point lets not argue this small point.

Rads hasn\'t been given the chance to be called a bust.
But also don\'t think he will break 100 pts.
Looks like I will continue to fall in the middle between you two.

[big_dl]

I hypothesize that Radulov\'s numbers are low because Trotz doesnt like him and is a dumb as for not playing him more (somewhat tongue in cheek). Here\'s evidence:

Forwards who averaged more TOI than A-Rad and their points:
Arnott 72, Erat 57, Dumont 72, Legwand 44
(Bonk averaged 30 seconds less and Hlavac a minute less)

Arnott 1500/72 = 1 point every 20.83 mins
Erat 1418/57 = 1 point every 24.88 mins
Dumont 1480/72 = 1 point every 20.56 mins
Legwand 1171/44 = 1 point every 26.61 mins
Radulov 1328/58 = 1 point every 22.89 mins
Bonk 1259/29 = 1 point every 43.41 mins
Hlavac 1212/35 = 1 point every 34.63 mins

Now with A-Rad being the 3rd most efficient scorer as well as being 5th in PP TOI Trotz doesnt see fit to play A-Rad consistently on the top PP unit as well as on the #1 line ES. How is it that he receives 2 minutes less per game than Legwand and Erat? He must be a defensive liability there\'s no other explanation, except that he\'s +7 and the 3rd highest +/- amongst the forwards and 5th on the team. I can\'t see any other reason why A-Rad wouldnt get more time.

[Seeds of Grapes]

Seeds, you\'d be advised to not to blatantly misquote someone on a message board, cause see the thing about it is, anyone who wants to can read the original posts and see that you\'re a jackass and are misrepresenting the argument.

I NEVER said he was a bust, I said he was a \'minor bust\'

and then you go on to explain what you \"really meant.\" lol.

I agree - let\'s keep it up here for all to see. I won\'t call you a jackass, as you did me. I will let everyone else determine for themselves.