Top 5 defensemen in real life? Rep for help

[Top_Shelf]

Good arguments, like I said we are taking about elite dmen here so you can make a case for any of the 5 listed.

That said, in real life, The Habs would likely be fishing or golfing right now if not for Subban, the guy is a monster.....you cant teach what he brings to the ice, he'd be my first pick.

Can't see how anyone leaves him off their list.

[Pengwin7]

When this question is asked, real NHL-value, I always urge the person asking to clarify between:

a. Current moment real NHL value. (i.e. If you are selecting defensemen for your ONE-GAME-MATCH-TOMORROW... who do you take?)
or
b. Future real NHL value. (i.e. If you are selecting defensemen for your NHL-TEAM where you are GM for future... who do you take?)


For #a, Chara is probably on my list... but not for #b, due to age.

1. Weber is the one-guy I'd expect to see on EVERYBODY's list, either case.
2. Suter is a rock for two-way play.
...
After this, it depends how people assign value to a defenseman.

I've always assigned value to defenseman as approximately:
2/3rds of value = defensive play
1/3rd of value = offensive play

And for forwards, I run with the opposite:
2/3rds of value = offensive play
1/3rd of value = defensive play


Anyways, continuing with my list and building a team for the future:
3. Pietrangelo
4. Subban
5. Karlsson

These guys are 9 or 10/10 for offense.
And there may be better guys defensively, but I still think these guys are all 7s or 8s or 9s defensively.

I love Duncan Keith, and believe he should win the Norris this year, but he's just outside my top five.

[2014olympicgold]

Weber and Doughty
Pet and Suter
Karlsson

A d-man’s pairing is such an influence on the performance of a player. Imagine if Karlsson had a “stay-at-home” D partner with the skill of Suter? He’d be allowed off the leash even more. Or his defensive gaffs wouldn’t result is as many goals against.

If it was based on raw talent and I could make my lines, Karlsson would be on this list of top 5. If it is based on pure numbers it would be Keith.

[Big Ev]

Weber
Karlsson
Doughty
Keith
Pietrangelo/Suter

[rataylor22]

Doughty
Keith
Weber
Suter

are my easy top 4 in no particular order. There are lots of options for the 5th guy, but I definitely wouldn't have Karlsson. For me it would have to be between Pietrangelo and Subban.

[fungchen3]

If I were handed the keys to an NHL franchise and were looking for a D anchor to be the face of my franchise, I would definitely factor in elements such as age and versatility. Here would be my guys in order:

1. Shea Weber - Only 28 and the total package. He's everything you want in a cornerstone defenseman - a leader, minute-muncher, big, strong, mean, can skate, shoot, pass and score a ton of goals.

2. Drew Doughty - He's only 24 and still hasn't peaked yet. His offense has taken a dip because that's what his coach demanded of him, however, when he has the green light he can put up points in bunches. A solid case could be made for Doughty being #1 on this list.

3. P.K. Subban - He has all the tools you want in a dominant, franchise defenseman. His only flaw is his immaturity at times but when he has it in check he is among the best players on the planet. Just like Chris Chelios, the more Subban matures the more dominant he becomes.

4. Ryan Suter - The word that comes to mind with Suter: Well-rounded. The guy is a rock on D and gives you a little bit of everything. His defensive awareness is actually superior to the guys ranked ahead of him, but he doesn't have the big shot to strike fear into the opponent. He is a good skater and excellent puck distributor though.

5. Erik Karlsson - This spot came down to him, Keith and Pietrangelo. Duncan Keith is 30 years old, and even with 5-6 solid years ahead of him, I'll take the elite dynamo who is 23. I prefer Karlsson to Pietrangelo by a smidge because of his electrifying skating and offensive instincts. He is the best offensive weapon at his position and it's not even close. He can control a whole game and is not nearly as bad defensively as his detractors say.

There are some other great options like Chara (too old), Hedman (I need to see a tad more), Ekman-Larsson (super close), McDonagh (not as dangerous offensively), Vlasic (not nearly enough offense) but the 5 above are my guys.

[Big Ev]

Pre-injury, Karlsson was talked about as being the best player in the league - not just d-men. At their highest level, it isn't even close between him and Subban/Pietrangelo. We'll see if he can get back to that level shortly.

[rataylor22]

Pre-injury, Karlsson was talked about as being the best player in the league - not just d-men. At their highest level, it isn't even close between him and Subban/Pietrangelo. We'll see if he can get back to that level shortly.

Maybe I just didn't pay attention, but I'm not sure how many people were saying this in "real life" terms. Lots of people were saying he could be one of the most valuable players in fantasy due to his position scarcity, but I personally never considered Karlsson good enough defensively to be in that conversation. He's like a souped up Letang. High skill offense, Neidermayer-like skating ability that allows him to skate his way out of trouble a lot, but in terms of defensive acumen just average

[Big Ev]

Maybe I just didn't pay attention, but I'm not sure how many people were saying this in "real life" terms. Lots of people were saying he could be one of the most valuable players in fantasy due to his position scarcity, but I personally never considered Karlsson good enough defensively to be in that conversation. He's like a souped up Letang. High skill offense, Neidermayer-like skating ability that allows him to skate his way out of trouble a lot, but in terms of defensive acumen just average

McKenzie talked about it, and opposing coaches were just gushing over him. Hi defense was really good and he was controlling a game like nobody has seen in years. Dave Lewis was one who suggested he may be the league's best player. I didn't agree with that, but still. If he didn't get hurt last year he'd be the reigning Norris winner again by a fair margin.

[rataylor22]

McKenzie talked about it, and opposing coaches were just gushing over him. Hi defense was really good and he was controlling a game like nobody has seen in years. Dave Lewis was one who suggested he may be the league's best player. I didn't agree with that, but still. If he didn't get hurt last year he'd be the reigning Norris winner again by a fair margin.

Fair enough

[2014olympicgold]

He may not be the biggest guy on the ice, but you don’t need size to be a good shutdown D. Karlsson has the skating ability to be strong defensively. He has also gotten stronger and stronger since exploding into the league. This yr, by about January he was finally skating like he use too at times. Due to his skating abilities and non-physical defensive technique (not hard hitting or out muscling) I would describe it as “Lindstrom Defense”. Simple to explain, hard to execute. All stick work and putting yourself in a position to eliminate good chances against. When he went down with this injury, he lost his mobility which put him out of position a lot.

2011-2012
Karlsson had 78 points, +16
Craig Anderson had 2.84GAA and 0.914Sv%.

2013-14
Karlsson had 74 points, -15.
Anderson 3.00GAA and 0.911Sv%

Can’t blame the goalie on the +/- swing for Karlsson cause his stats were pretty close in the two yrs. I would say this is the lack of mobility shining through. I think in the last 10 games this yr Karlsson was like a +8 too.

Point is Karlssons defense is better than what people give him credit for.

[Axeman33]

Lets be honest, there are plenty of D who's a better D then they are given credit for. We tend to overlook the lapses in Karlssons defensive game because of his offensive numbers.

[fungchen3]

Pre-injury, Karlsson was talked about as being the best player in the league - not just d-men. At their highest level, it isn't even close between him and Subban/Pietrangelo. We'll see if he can get back to that level shortly.

I probably like Karlsson more than you, or at least as much as you, but we can't say "it's not even close" between him, Subban and Pietrangelo in real life. That's just silly. Of course it's close. Pietrangelo and Subban are both a little better in ways defensively than Karlsson... although offensively, nobody comes close other than Subban at the top of his game. I honestly think Subban is a bit better all-around. Pietrangelo no, but it is close for sure.

[Big Ev]

I probably like Karlsson more than you, or at least as much as you, but we can't say "it's not even close" between him, Subban and Pietrangelo in real life. That's just silly. Of course it's close. Pietrangelo and Subban are both a little better in ways defensively than Karlsson... although offensively, nobody comes close other than Subban at the top of his game. I honestly think Subban is a bit better all-around. Pietrangelo no, but it is close for sure.

I stand by it. Subban can't touch him when they are both playing at their highest level. Karlsson does everything he can, at a faster pace. The only thing he has on him is a harder slap shot. Nobody in the league dominates at his position like Karlsson, except for maybe Crosby and Malkin. There's a reason he has won top D at every level. He is a quarterback in every sense.

[Shiva Blaster]

I stand by it. Subban can't touch him when they are both playing at their highest level. Karlsson does everything he can, at a faster pace. The only thing he has on him is a harder slap shot. Nobody in the league dominates at his position like Karlsson, except for maybe Crosby and Malkin. There's a reason he has won top D at every level. He is a quarterback in every sense.

Except that he was't good enough to quarterback the Sens anywhere close to a playoff position this season. Karlsson is 100% the most skilled dman in the league, and by a fair margin IMO. That said, I don't think that being the most skilled necessarily equals being the best at a given position. Karlsson does not play a tradition d-man's game, does not have a traditional d-mans physique, and I'm still of the opinion that having Karlsson as your (by far) #1 dman is not going to lend itself to team success or championship hockey. This was a rough year for the Sens, but in general, the 'best dman in the league' is not someone with a negative +/- and questionable advanced stats on a near-basement team.