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Thread: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Be careful not to treat "not good" as if it is equivalent to "bad."

    No, Crosby is not a good faceoff man. He's also not bad. Tends to jump around a bit from year to year - 50 two years ago, 54 last year, 52 this season. A tad above average, keeping in line with what I've said.

    I didn't say he doesn't backcheck. I said it's not a transcendent part of his game. Crosby doesn't stand out from any other average center in this respect.
    For contrast, look at Marian Hossa (the best example). Or Toews. Bergeron, Datsyuk. List goes on. It's not an insult to suggest Crosby isn't on that plane, and he isn't.

    There is no defensive skill that Crosby truly stands out in. Again, don't misconstrue what I've said - it really is in black-and-white up there. He is not exceptional in any one defensive facet; if there is one that I am missing, you're welcome to bring it up.

    Toews has better linemates at even strength. Crosby has a huge edge on the powerplay (that Malkin guy). I was referring to the overall talent of the two teams, which you yourself had been talking about - Pittsburgh and Chicago aren't far apart at all.
    In any case, the linemate argument is weak; it is a pure hypothetical that has no basis in argument.

    Ah, one more thing I forgot to mention in the previous post...
    You brought up O-zone start percentage, perhaps the single most misused 'advanced' statistic in hockey today.
    Chicago is likely the league's best puck possession team - they take an enormous percentage of their faceoffs in the offensive zone. The natural corollary to that is that most of their players start a ton of their shifts in the offensive zone. Chicago's trio of fourth liners are the only forwards on the roster who are under 50%.
    There's also the point that Toews is Chicago's only good offensive center (seriously, they're horrific down the middle). Naturally, he is almost forced into a more offensive role.

    For the record, I think Crosby is clearly better than Toews. But most aren't making the correct arguments, or are wasting time erroneously downplaying Toews.

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by ssarcu View Post
    For the record, I think Crosby is clearly better than Toews. But most aren't making the correct arguments, or are wasting time erroneously downplaying Toews.
    This is a great way to put it.
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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobber View Post
    I invited them, looking to encourage some lively discussion. Hopefull the members here can welcome the gang at The Hockey Writers and promote healthy dialogue. Will this work, or will you make me look bad in front of my colleagues? "douchebags", really? Just one big paintbrush across all 100 writers over there?

    What I can do, for any Dobber forum member who does not want to bother with THW discussion, is I can remove access to The Hockey Writers section of the forum so you never see it (I'm pretty sure I can do that). Let me know if that would be best. Thanks mcgoo
    OH...um sorry Dobber, I had no idea this was somethng you condoned. I read the article and found it so poorly written and ill conceived that I immediately assumed it was the work of bleacherreport or hockeybuzz type dudes who spam these forums periodically, I had no idea this was the kinda thing you had sought out. So, many apologies, sorry for the douchebag comment, I thought you guys were just another spam site trying to steal traffic... welcome to the forums and by all means carry on with your nonsense arguments, we have no shortage of those of those these days so you should fit right in cheers

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Do I call you Mister? or just McGoo ?

    For some reason you like to group things together without much info. This may shock you but since the big buyout B/R has actually brought on some top writers and have been producing much better content. I'm still not quite a fan but they are improving. (you may have been just referring to them being spammy here - if so, disregard that comment).

    As for our site - of course all our articles aren't gems, there's certainly a few turds in there. But we do strive for quality. I have a feeling that you may be out of touch with what it takes to run this kind of business. The economics of it make it very difficult to do what we would ideally like to. I'd love to have a full time editor - but I also like that my kid has food on his plate. We have to work with present day realities.
    But trust me - my name is tied the site and producing crap is not why I got into the game.

    here's something we posted today - to give you an idea of what we shoot for.

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceH View Post
    Do I call you Mister? or just McGoo ?

    For some reason you like to group things together without much info. This may shock you but since the big buyout B/R has actually brought on some top writers and have been producing much better content. I'm still not quite a fan but they are improving. (you may have been just referring to them being spammy here - if so, disregard that comment).

    As for our site - of course all our articles aren't gems, there's certainly a few turds in there. But we do strive for quality. I have a feeling that you may be out of touch with what it takes to run this kind of business. The economics of it make it very difficult to do what we would ideally like to. I'd love to have a full time editor - but I also like that my kid has food on his plate. We have to work with present day realities.
    But trust me - my name is tied the site and producing crap is not why I got into the game.

    here's something we posted today - to give you an idea of what we shoot for.

    http://thehockeywriters.com/molsons-...ens-tradition/
    not buying it skippy, sorry

    so far all we've got from you are these extremist articles with ludicrous titles like 'Toews is the best player in the world' and 'Vancouver is the worst team in the NHL'...really? do you think we're ******ed? you'd do well to take a few more lessons in journalism from the NY Times and a few less from Fox News if you expect to carry any weight here because this kinda nonsense won't fly here Mr Editor

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    not buying it skippy, sorry

    so far all we've got from you are these extremist articles with ludicrous titles like 'Toews is the best player in the world' and 'Vancouver is the worst team in the NHL'...really? do you think we're ******ed? you'd do well to take a few more lessons in journalism from the NY Times and a few less from Fox News if you expect to carry any weight here because this kinda nonsense won't fly here Mr Editor
    Actually, the title to the Toews article has a question mark at the end. If you read it like you claimed you did, you cannot say that it doesn't at least warrant some sort of discussion. By the way, have you ever written before? If so, I'd love to see your work. "Cheers."

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by ASquared View Post
    By the way, have you ever written before? If so, I'd love to see your work. "Cheers."
    With all due respect, I don't see what this has to do with anything. If you put yourself out there on the internet, you are asking for praise as well as criticism.

    Perfect example, I put up music videos on youtube of myself singing/playing the guitar. I am not a pro so I get criticism as well as praise. I have never once said to a critic "where's your music video?" as a retort to his criticism. I put myself out there to be viewed at my own risk. I realize not everyone will like what they hear so I take the good with the bad.

    Similar to your writing, you put yourself out there. I am sure not everyone will agree with your writing/comments but you have to be prepared for some sort of cynicism. Now I agree that no one needs to be rude or derogatory with comments; thats taking it too far. Maybe I am wrong but I haven't seen any of that towards your writing on here yet.
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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by ASquared View Post
    Actually, the title to the Toews article has a question mark at the end. If you read it like you claimed you did, you cannot say that it doesn't at least warrant some sort of discussion. By the way, have you ever written before? If so, I'd love to see your work. "Cheers."
    Oh I see! So the question mark at the end makes up for the fact that the article is poorly conceived, poorly written and composed solely by a raging Hawks homer? Cool, good to know!

    What's your next piece of entitled? "Nikolai khabibulin, is he the greatest to ever put on pads"?

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by ASquared View Post
    Actually, the title to the Toews article has a question mark at the end. If you read it like you claimed you did, you cannot say that it doesn't at least warrant some sort of discussion. By the way, have you ever written before? If so, I'd love to see your work. "Cheers."
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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    not buying it skippy, sorry

    so far all we've got from you are these extremist articles with ludicrous titles like 'Toews is the best player in the world' and 'Vancouver is the worst team in the NHL'...really? do you think we're ******ed? you'd do well to take a few more lessons in journalism from the NY Times and a few less from Fox News if you expect to carry any weight here because this kinda nonsense won't fly here Mr Editor
    I had to bite my tongue when a new thread was started about that asinine Vancouver "article". Pure clickbait. They've been doing it for years. Same thing, all the time. The quality ratio is probably something like nine cringeworthy articles for every good one.
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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    This is a great link - I didn't know about that theory, but it makes total sense.

    Bruce is trying to balance what I try to balance - our sites can't survive with five articles a week, but if we publish the amount of articles we need to publish to survive, the standards occasionally slip in terms of writing or editing. We do what we can with the time we have and it's painful when someone vocal paints 100 articles with the same brush based on a couple of bad apples because then others will pre-judge based on that. Many articles are very good, otherwise our sites wouldn't be as successful.
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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    not buying it skippy, sorry

    so far all we've got from you are these extremist articles with ludicrous titles like 'Toews is the best player in the world' and 'Vancouver is the worst team in the NHL'...really? do you think we're ******ed? you'd do well to take a few more lessons in journalism from the NY Times and a few less from Fox News if you expect to carry any weight here because this kinda nonsense won't fly here Mr Editor
    This entire point could be made without calling him skippy. You have some good points to make but few will take you seriously if you don't make them properly. My offer still stands - I can block this section of the forum from you if you don't want to see it or be involved. I'd just create a user category that allows the entire forum but this part, and put you and anyone else who doesn't want to see it, in it.
    The Best Fantasy Hockey Site

    15-Team Keeper, points only, best 12 fwd, 4 dman, 2 G count. Playoffs count.

    F - T. Thompson, Thomas, Nylander, Tarasenko, Arvidsson, Guentzel, Fiala, Quinn, Mittelstadt, Hagel, Zacha, Roslovic, Berggren, Brink, Ostlund
    G - Kahkonen, Vejmelka, L. Thompson, Levi, Comrie
    D - Hronek, Morrissey, Lundkvist, Girard, Brannstrom, Rathbone, Hanifin, Severson, Durzi

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Funny, I 'd never heard of this but it's true.

    Just got taken in yesterday by one "Is Jeff Golblum returning for Jurassic World?"

    I was pretty stoked to think Dr Ian Malcom might be back for the new Jurassic Park movie. Unfortunately the article should have been titled "Goldblum not returning for Jurassic World". Bastards got my hopes up for nothing. Pretty cruddy way to gain clicks and definitely leaves a sour taste in your mouth for the sites that use those methods.
    Without me, it's only "aweso".

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceH View Post
    Do I call you Mister? or just McGoo ?

    For some reason you like to group things together without much info. This may shock you but since the big buyout B/R has actually brought on some top writers and have been producing much better content. I'm still not quite a fan but they are improving. (you may have been just referring to them being spammy here - if so, disregard that comment).

    As for our site - of course all our articles aren't gems, there's certainly a few turds in there. But we do strive for quality. I have a feeling that you may be out of touch with what it takes to run this kind of business. The economics of it make it very difficult to do what we would ideally like to. I'd love to have a full time editor - but I also like that my kid has food on his plate. We have to work with present day realities.
    But trust me - my name is tied the site and producing crap is not why I got into the game.

    here's something we posted today - to give you an idea of what we shoot for.

    http://thehockeywriters.com/molsons-...ens-tradition/
    I never had a problem with Bleacher Report content or writing - because I've never read an article. My problem has always been - one page per picture/paragraph. I'm not going to click 12 times to get through an article. And they still do that.
    The Best Fantasy Hockey Site

    15-Team Keeper, points only, best 12 fwd, 4 dman, 2 G count. Playoffs count.

    F - T. Thompson, Thomas, Nylander, Tarasenko, Arvidsson, Guentzel, Fiala, Quinn, Mittelstadt, Hagel, Zacha, Roslovic, Berggren, Brink, Ostlund
    G - Kahkonen, Vejmelka, L. Thompson, Levi, Comrie
    D - Hronek, Morrissey, Lundkvist, Girard, Brannstrom, Rathbone, Hanifin, Severson, Durzi

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    Default Re: Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

    I heard they are moving away from that. Can't say I visit often either though.

    And..you hit the nail on the head with trying to balance business with quality. We publish about 150 articles a week, some great, some..not so much..But for those that love hockey we really do have a lot of outstanding material.

    A place to look for the better stuff is our Index.

    http://thehockeywriters.com/the-hock...rs-site-index/
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