Is Jonathan Toews The Best Player In The World?

[rataylor22]

Saad had 27 points last season in 46 games. Very admirable for a rookie, but to say he was better than Iginla? No. Furthermore, Saad had 6 points in 23 playoff games last year, and a -1 plus-minus.

I'll give you the fact that Keith/Seabrook are the best defensive pairing in hockey. But that doesn't make Kris Letang and Brooks Orpik incompetent. Sutter was a trade deadline deal that beefed up the Pens. He didn't hinder them whatsoever.

Leddy is a solid d-man, especially for his size. But this year, he hasn't been consistently paired with the same guy on the defensive 3rd line pairing. Crawford vs. Fleury is a discussion for a different day I guess. Both have a Cup, and both have been up and down throughout their tenures. Personally, if given the choice, I'd take Fleury over Crawford, but I could be wrong.

So you make a ton of arguments saying points shouldn't be a huge factor in the matter, try and completely discredit the 25 point disparity between Crosby and Toews (with Toews having one more game), and then your first (and only) argument against Saad is based on points? That is interesting. Convenient that you use it when you think it works for you but try and rail against it when it doesn't. Iginla is obviously much better than Saad offensively, but he is old, slow, losing his physical edge down low, and was redundant on Pittsburgh. He didn't fit in their system at all and was a negative impact on team chemistry trying to fit him in where he didn't really have a spot or a role. Saad killed penalties and even last year was a very competent defensive player. You're getting hung up on name value more than actual play, and Iginla has been much better this year than he was at any point last year.

Next point. I knew I was forgetting Orpik. And you're right, Letang and Orpik aren't slouches. Nor is Martin. None of them compare to Keith and Seabrook in all around game, either individually or as a pair, and I'll stand by my point that Hjalmarsson and Leddy are much closer to any of the three than any of those 3 are to Keith/Seabrook, especially Hjalmarsson.

Thirdly. Do you pay attention? Sutter was acquired at the draft in the Jordan Staal trade. He did not beef up the Penguins, he is an obvious downgrade in the 3C role to Jordan Staal. It was a good trade given how handcuffed Shero was, but it made the team immediately worse, not better. Which isn't even to try and belittle you, as I'm not, but saying the Sutter acquistion was at the deadline and beefed up the Pens is extremely wrong and basically the complete opposite of how that trade affected the team.

[rataylor22]

Crosby just thinks and plays the game at a different level from everyone else.
it doesn't show up in advanced or simple stats...



Let’s close this thread and open another titled:
Do the hockey writers choose the strangest topics for discussion in the world?

Awesome GIF. That play was still incredible. No other player in the world would have thought of that as an option.

[mister_mcgoo]

Hey, if you feel it's poorly conceived, written and composed, you're entitled to that opinion. But one thing I certainly am not is a "raging Hawks homer." I'm a Flyers fan if you must know. Good day.

Oh a Flyers fan are you? That makes complete sense...you hate the Pens and Sid with every ounce of your being, that's how you came up with the idea for this silly article.

And yes it is poorly written, how can you call yourself a 'writer' when you don't even spell check? Seriously dude, ignore for the moment that the content is weak, if you can't even spell properly and check what you've written before posting then how do you expect to be taken seriously?

[ASquared]

Crosby just thinks and plays the game at a different level from everyone else.
it doesn't show up in advanced or simple stats...



Let’s close this thread and open another titled:
Do the hockey writers choose the strangest topics for discussion in the world?

Based on one play? Again, I'm not taking anything away from Crosby - he's a great player. But if I used your logic, then Ovechkin is the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gFjY2hHIgE

[ASquared]

So you make a ton of arguments saying points shouldn't be a huge factor in the matter, try and completely discredit the 25 point disparity between Crosby and Toews (with Toews having one more game), and then your first (and only) argument against Saad is based on points? That is interesting. Convenient that you use it when you think it works for you but try and rail against it when it doesn't. Iginla is obviously much better than Saad offensively, but he is old, slow, losing his physical edge down low, and was redundant on Pittsburgh. He didn't fit in their system at all and was a negative impact on team chemistry trying to fit him in where he didn't really have a spot or a role. Saad killed penalties and even last year was a very competent defensive player. You're getting hung up on name value more than actual play, and Iginla has been much better this year than he was at any point last year.

Next point. I knew I was forgetting Orpik. And you're right, Letang and Orpik aren't slouches. Nor is Martin. None of them compare to Keith and Seabrook in all around game, either individually or as a pair, and I'll stand by my point that Hjalmarsson and Leddy are much closer to any of the three than any of those 3 are to Keith/Seabrook, especially Hjalmarsson.

Thirdly. Do you pay attention? Sutter was acquired at the draft in the Jordan Staal trade. He did not beef up the Penguins, he is an obvious downgrade in the 3C role to Jordan Staal. It was a good trade given how handcuffed Shero was, but it made the team immediately worse, not better. Which isn't even to try and belittle you, as I'm not, but saying the Sutter acquistion was at the deadline and beefed up the Pens is extremely wrong and basically the complete opposite of how that trade affected the team.

You are right that points are not the end all be all (or pointing out that I said that). However, Saad is not the captain of his team, nor was he a showcased/top tier player last season. In fact, he's blossomed this year more so than last.

And my apologies on the Sutter comment. I completely got him mixed up with Morrow. Call it old age, lol.

[ASquared]

Oh a Flyers fan are you? That makes complete sense...you hate the Pens and Sid with every ounce of your being, that's how you came up with the idea for this silly article.

And yes it is poorly written, how can you call yourself a 'writer' when you don't even spell check? Seriously dude, ignore for the moment that the content is weak, if you can't even spell properly and check what you've written before posting then how do you expect to be taken seriously?

I am a Flyers fan, but I also give credit where it's due. I'm not going to be found claiming Claude Giroux is better than Crosby, although their most recent meeting in the playoffs was pure gold, and further assists my case for Toews.

It's fine if you disagree, and maybe I came off too defensive. I truly believe Toews is the best player - all around. And like I said, it's at least worth a discussion.

[ssarcu]

I read a ton of sports content online and as far as hockey is concerned, THW has provided some of the (individually) highest-quality pieces I've seen.

As Bruce alluded to, there are still some inevitable and inescapable realities of the business. Not everything is going to be golden.

Just off the top of my head, these two articles stand out. There are a ton on (or above) this level.

http://thehockeywriters.com/silent-s...al-health-nhl/
http://thehockeywriters.com/irreleva...wks-franchise/ (shameless self-plug)

As for Toews/Crosby, it is a very legitimate discussion and an equally legitimate article. Hockey and the NHL are a far cry from, say, the NBA, where the top few players in the world are almost hilariously superior to the competition.

People transform their reaction to an article's message into a reaction to the author itself too often. There is nothing wrong with holding the opinion that Toews is better than Crosby as long as you can support yourself with a reasonable argument - that is, after all, the entire point of writing the article in the first place. And that is exactly what the author did and has done.

You disagree? Great. Support your position, then. All there is to it.

That's all. The THW and individual author bashing is baseless and a waste of time. It's a lot more interesting to discuss hockey.

[Dakkster]

In other news, lone man screams at windmills.

[gainerama]

Well part of the big problem is how do you define "the best" cause that's rather subjective. Crosby is the best offensive player in the world. Toews is the best 2-way responsible player in the world. If you look at pure skill and hockey awareness, Crosby would be the runaway best player by a long shot and Malkin would be a very distint second if he started playing his best again. Yes you could also say that because Toews is such a great all-round 2-way player, that he can be perceived as the best if you average down every aspect of the game including the intangibles, toughness and leadership. Course you could also say that about Datsyuk as well for being the best all-round 2-way player in the game.

In my own personal opinion because of what he has done, what he can do, and what he represents to hockey as a sport, Crosby is the best. He could be a complete useless tool on defence and play completely irresponsible, and I would still rate him the best active hockey player in the world, even though he is a good player on both ends in real life. But it all comes down to what you look for in a player, and I know Toews plays with more heart than just about anyone. If I was starting a real hockey franchise right now with the intent of winning, you bet Crosby would be my first choice. But if I was picking second overall, I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't consider taking Toews to lead my team going forward. I also don't think it's an accident that he has 2 championship rings.

[Dakkster]

When Datsyuk isn't injured like he is right now, he's a head taller than Toews in terms of two-way dominance.

[mister_mcgoo]

In other news, lone man screams at windmills.

that's not news, that's just Dutch

[4T2]

I read a ton of sports content online and as far as hockey is concerned, THW has provided some of the (individually) highest-quality pieces I've seen.

As Bruce alluded to, there are still some inevitable and inescapable realities of the business. Not everything is going to be golden.

Just off the top of my head, these two articles stand out. There are a ton on (or above) this level.

http://thehockeywriters.com/silent-s...al-health-nhl/
http://thehockeywriters.com/irreleva...wks-franchise/ (shameless self-plug)

As for Toews/Crosby, it is a very legitimate discussion and an equally legitimate article. Hockey and the NHL are a far cry from, say, the NBA, where the top few players in the world are almost hilariously superior to the competition.

People transform their reaction to an article's message into a reaction to the author itself too often. There is nothing wrong with holding the opinion that Toews is better than Crosby as long as you can support yourself with a reasonable argument - that is, after all, the entire point of writing the article in the first place. And that is exactly what the author did and has done.

You disagree? Great. Support your position, then. All there is to it.

That's all. The THW and individual author bashing is baseless and a waste of time. It's a lot more interesting to discuss hockey.

There's no need to outright bash THW by any means. Some comments have been over the top for sure. I've read a few articles over the last day or two. Some have impressed me while others have quickly turned me off. There is definitely a higher percentage of good articles than there used to be. However, I still probably won't waste my time wading through all the poorly written ones on the chance I get to a good one. The cream will rise to the top and I'm sure the truly good articles will catch my eye through these forums.

For the record, I think there has been some very constructive criticism made by certain members on here and I hope that THW takes it into consideration rather than taking it as an insult. Unfortunately, it seems to be getting lost in the less constructive comments.

When Datsyuk isn't injured like he is right now, he's a head taller than Toews in terms of two-way dominance.

I agree with this although Datsyuk is obviously on the downside of his career while Toews is just reaching his prime so that should be factored in as well.