PLEASE comment on Hertl VS Giroux!!!
Hi guys,
I am in the trade committee of a new PTS-only Dynasty league. I just vetoed a trade offer that I won't qualify with any word so i don't influence anyone.
Please comment on Hertl VS Giroux 1 vs 1 so that I can show why I vetoed it.
Thanks...
14 teams Dynasty (keep 10)
Points-only, Goalies 2W +1SO
F (12) = Kopitar, Tavares, Benn, Schwartz, Hornqvist, Thornton, Kreider, Nyquist, Perreault, Maroon, Lee, Dzingel
D (4) = Burns, Klingberg, Carlson, Niskanen, Severson
G (1) = Holtby, Grubauer
That is a ridiculous trade! Giroux is a top end talent, Hertl is one of many 50 pointers and may never be as good as Giroux so the new Hertl owner would not gain an advantage in either the short or long term in my opinion. Pretty easy to veto. Good call.
20 team H2H Fantrax Cap Dynasty
2018/2018 Cap=90 mil
G, A, +/-, PPP, SHP, PIM, SOG, FO%, HIT, BLK, TOI/G
W, GAA, SV%, SV, SHO
3C/LW/RW, 6D, 2Sk, 2G
C: Backstrom, Bergeron, Eichel
L: Benn, Rakell, Coleman, Goldobin, Weal, B. McGinn
R: Pavelski, Radulov, Panik, B. Tanev, D. Ryan
D: Burns, Josi, Weber, Ellis, Manson, Forbort, Stecher, Weegar
G: Talbot, Elliott
Farm: Harkins, Hayden, Kampf, Highmore, Dickinson, Bjork, Motte, Foegele, Rychel, Kossila, Poturalski, Graves, Bear, Nielsen, Timmins, Ozhiganov, McKeown, Gillies, Boyle, Brossoit, Ellis, Rittich
Well, I am going to comment here only because you seem to want people to comment and I won't mince my words.
This type of trade really shows the calibre and general fantasy knowledge of "some" of your GMs in your league. First off, the GM who was trying to fleece the other guy should know better. You can't blame him for wanting to make this deal but he has to feel a fair amount of guilt in doing it. The GM who was giving away Giroux also shows the amount of hockey knowledge he possesses when it comes to fantasy hockey.
That trade is brutal with a capital B! I have heard of selling high but this is ridiculous.
You really shouldn't need comments from this site to justify your actions.
10 Team, Points Only, Cash League
25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt
Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink
G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger
"Cleavage is like the sun. You can look, but dont stare.. Unless you're wearing sunglasses."
If your league doesn't realize why Hertl (a rookie on a hot streak) is not worth Giroux (a proven ppg+ player), then you should probably reconsider participating in this league.
Absolutely ridiculous.
16 Team H2H Full Keeper: G, A, Pts, +/-, PIM, SOG, STP, H+B, FW, GAA, SV%, W, SV, SO
Start: 4c, 4lw, 4rw, 6d, 2g, 8 bench
Center: Eichel, Scheifele, Nelson, Pirri
Left Wing: Huberdeau, Hoffman (C/LW), Maroon, Soderberg (C/LW)
Right Wing: Kessel, Little (C/RW), Nyquist (C/RW), Zucarrello (LW/RW)
Defense: Karlsson, Carlson, Savard, Stone, Petry, McNabb
Goalie: Bishop, Anderson, Raanta
Bench: Lander, JT Miller, Eakin, Gerbe (C/LW), Dorsett, Jurco, Coyle (C/RW)
Farm: Gormley, S. Morin, Paquette, Weal, Poirier, Vesey, Goldobin, Fiala, Sprong, Copp, Griffith, Stolarz (G), Visentin (G), Bibeau (G), S. Williams (G)
Agreed. Well said.Originally Posted by Axeman33
@SmittysRant
Awkward..............
It's pretty much all been said above.
To add: This trade should never happen for the integrity of the league.
Yeah... that's pretty bad. Hertl had one good game.
I'm one for never vetoing a trade, I mean NEVER but ya wow that is way to one sided. Almost like the guys little brother got a hold of his account. Also there is no guilt in fantasy hockey lol, If I could do that I would make fun of the guy I ripped off FOREVER.
***2014/2017 Points only League Champion***
Our league is a 10 team, 12 player keeper. Weekly H2H
Points only. Dress - 4 LW 4 C 4 RW 6 D 2 G
Weight - G= 2 A= 1 Hatty =3 W = 2 So=3 OTL=1
Keepers - Giroux, Ovechkin, Backstrom(C), Tarasenko, Malkin, Wheeler, -- Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo -- Rask, Schneider, Talbot
If there is no collusion, then the trade should stand. It's that simple.
If you feel you must take action, chuck the GM - not the trade.
Whoever thinks Hertl for Giroux is okay in your league needs to go, period. Trades like this can destroy a league.
Last edited by One87; October 9, 2013 at 10:05 PM.
League:Fantrax 18 Team Dynasty, H2H (4C, 8W, 6D, 1G)
Cats:G, A, GWG, PPP, SHP, SOG, H+B, FOW, S, SV%, W, GAA
C: Backstrom,Giroux,MacKinnon,Seguin
W: D.Brown,Hartnell,Hossa,P.Kane
Kesler,Marleau,Perron,Zibanejad
D: Boyle,Del Zotto,Doughty,D.Hamilton,Hedman,Markov
G: Rinne
Bench: Braun,Comeau, Demers,DeHaan,Polak,Stempniak,Wingels --Fleury
I totally agree. Kick out the idiot GM asap too or at least make it so that any roster moves require your approval.
12 team Full Dynasty w cap. 13F, 7D, 2G, 5B.
G 4.25, A 2.75, PPP 1.5, SHP 3, Hits 0.4, Blocks 0.5, PIM 0.25, DFP 1
W 5 OTL 1 SO 6 SV 0.25 L-1 GS 1
F:Stamkos, C Stew, R Johansen, B Dubinsky, Max Pac, Umberger, B Ryan, D Backes, T Ruutu, Lucic, Ott, MSL, Heatley, C Kunitz, J Benn, L Adam
D: C Fowler, Kronwall, A Goligoski, JM Liles, M Giordano, K Letang, N Nikitin, R Josi
G: J Quick, A Niemi, C Anderson, Rinne
Hard to believe there was no collusion here. Either that or the guy who wanted to trade Giroux for Hertl is in full blow up mode. I grabbed Hertl in our draft this year but as you can see, my team is very young. I would grab Giroux in a minute for the young Shark forward, but I am happy to say that the guys in my league seem to have some integrity.
Besides, I tried and our Giroux owner said no. Joking!
Bottleneckers (12/16 in 2022)
16 team, points only. G: 2-W, 4-SO.
Top 9F, 4D & 1G . Keep 15, Max 23
F: J. Robertson, J. Hughes, Tavares, Lafreniere, Cozens, Newhook, Teravainen, Domi, R. Strome, Laine, Rossi, Raymond, Holtz, Perfetti
D: Bouchard, McAvoy, Morrissey, Heiskanen
G: Vasilevskiy
I am a Giroux owner and there is no way in the world I would trade him for Hertl. Zero, zilch, none. That said, if I were in your league, I would NOT veto this trade and here's why...
Most fantasy GMs are looking to uncover that "next great" young player who is going to emerge into a future star. There is a certain feeling of excitement and accomplishment when you draft, or trade, for one of those guys before they blossom into a great player.
Now, we've all fallen into the "trap" at one point in our fantasy careers where we overpay for the new shiny toy who fizzles out after a red hot start. And we've all woken up groggy with egg on our face and miserable after the fact. But there are those instances where we hit the jackpot and acquire that gem at the perfect time.
How do we know 100% that Hertl won't develop along the lines of Huberdeau, MacKinnon and Yakupov... if not better? Chances are he won't, but we never know. He is a kid who played well against men in Europe and now finds himself on a top scoring line with Joe Thornton and Brent Burns. Meanwhile, Giroux is stuck in a mud trap in Philly where things have looked awful - as a Flyers fan I know this first hand.
Right now this deal reeks of "proven star" vs. "flavor of the month" but it depends on how much you believe in Hertl. It's not like the guy is trading Giroux for a prospect who is stuck in juniors for another 2-3 seasons - that would be a different story.
Personally, I think Giroux is a steady 74-82 point player unless the Flyers trade for a stud winger to play the role of Robin. In that case, he's a legit 85-90 point threat. I think Hertl will end up a 65-75 point player in the next 2-3 years, however he could surprise early and his ceiling is legitimately 85 points IMO. All summer I've praised Hertl and insist he will be a big part of the Sharks future with Couture.
The crazy thing is, if the Flyers continue to spiral this season, I see Giroux having an awful year and not finishing significantly higher than Hertl (maybe 10-15 points if that).
So, yes, I can see why this deal looks "bad" on the surface - and not a deal I would make as a Giroux owner - but it is not one I would veto. Just being honest.
8-GM / WK-H2H
Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10
Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
Captain: Matthews
(F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
(D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun, Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
(G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka
I usually agree with your opinions, and I always respect them - including this time, but I disagree a little.
I once traded Marty St. Louis, Zubov and Kiprusoff for a rookie named Radulov, a 2nd year talent in Vanek, and a young goalie Lehtonen. I rolled the dice because I believed I was snagging three future superstars before they hit their prime. Needless to say it was a bad trade.
St. Louis ended up one of the best scorers of the decade, Zubov was a stud D-Man until the end, and Kipper was a top-flight goalie. Meanwhile, Radulov bolted for the KHL before I could benefit from his production, Vanek still remains a staple on my roster, and Lehtonen was injury-prone and wishy-washy until he was traded a couple more times.
Yes, other GMs in my league thought I was nuts - and I knew I was taking a risk - but I wanted to gamble. It was a keeper league and I had aspirations of owning two star forwards and a future Vezina winner. I lost the deal bad but I never intended to hurt the league or sabotage my team... no GM in my league would ever do that.
On the flip side, a few years later I traded a "proven" Dion Phaneuf and a "young, future stud" in Chris Stewart for a young punk named Erik Karlsson who put up an "earth-shattering" 26 points in 60 games. A couple GMs thought I was once again crazy when I traded Dion+ for a tiny Swede who couldn't seem to navigate his own zone. Right now, Karlsson is my franchise player (and a top-5 overall producer in my league).
I'm dating myself, but in 1992-93 I drafted a "rookie" in a late round by the name of Teemu Selanne. A couple weeks into the season, I traded a couple very good players for a young Russian named Alex Mogilny who hadn't yet set the world on fire. That year Selanne and Mogilny both scored 76 goals.
Moral to the story: sometimes the gambles pay off and sometimes they don't. The Giroux owner is being seduced by the shiny toy - let him reap the rewards or learn the hard way.
8-GM / WK-H2H
Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10
Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
Captain: Matthews
(F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
(D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun, Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
(G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka
I usually agree with you 99% of the time fungchen, but you're really out to lunch on this one
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