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Thread: I'm Emailing Yahoo! Today: Position Eligibility

  1. #16
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    So the goal is to figure out which of the "sites" (#1 and all under #2) are linked to the "Wizards" (#3, #4, and other possible unknowns).

    Then, choose your site that is important to you and retrieve the proper wizard contact information. Harass them repeatedly until they fix the issue because the sites probably do a poor job of this.

    If we can't find the proper connections then just find all the wizards and harass all of them.

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    haha, LOL. Yup.

    I actually went on STATS, Inc the other day and tried to download this PDF they had for Hockey. It took half an hour to download and didn't have anything.

    Somebody mentioned that Fantrax uses Stats, Inc.
    I believe Fantrax also has several players with dual eligibility.


    To be honest, I think that these companies (like Fantrax) are employing "data collectors". These people are not necessarily "hockey fans". What this means is that they are NOT really tracking position per game and have no idea HOW to do it. This is why we are constantly seeing dual-eligibility: because nobody on these companies has a good clue of a player's actual position these days and they DON'T EVEN TRY to get it right.

    It's annoying, because it doesn't take much.

    These companies could hire ONE DIE-HARD HOCKEY FAN, say... me, for ONE WEEK.
    Get all the effin positions right for a minimal cost.

    But... they don't do this.
    They just use the previous year's positions, I believe, and tweak a few positions based on updates from ROTONEWS, like Brent Burns to forward for 2013-2014.
    They probably (if they are smart) also cross-examine the listed positions on a few major websites.
    And they probably log complaints forwarded from Yahoo! and may actually tweak something where 95% of the complaints say the same thing (i.e. "Evgeni Malkin is playing some RW, give him RW-eligibility" and BOOM, it happens one day).

    I've been trying to deduct positional eligibility forever.

    The main player I go to is James Neal.
    Neal has been exclusively a RW for two years, playing on Malkin's wing.

    There is NO reason he should be a RW any longer.
    However, the Penguins website still lists him as a RW.

    So, a statistical company wouldn't know what position he plays... just that he accumulates stats. Then maybe the extract information from three websites (say TSN, THN, NHL.com). They see James Neal LW, James Neal RW, and James Neal RW.

    Grand summary, they send information to a fantasy site saying James Neal (LW/RW).
    In other words, they didn't find 100% RW information for Neal... so they continue to give him dual eligibility.


    Long post... my absolute biggest pet peeve with fantasy hockey websites.

  3. #18
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    Welp...I've proven to be absolutely zero help in your quest so far, Pengwin...but I tried! Here are the response I received:

    @TheHockeyHitman @NHLJensen The Yahoo folks have a system for determining that - I believe through a secondary company.
    to which I replied:

    @NHLQubes For some reason I thought the position eligibility was based on the info at http://NHL.com . Thanks for the info.

    and he replied:
    @TheHockeyHitman It is not. My job would be a lot easier if that was the case ha. Juggling everyone's position is problematic here.
    just replied to him with:

    @NHLQubes Who at Yahoo would you suggest I take my inquiry too from a Twitter standpoint? Thanks for the info again

    Awaiting response.

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    Appreciate the work you guys are doing in trying to get it sorted, or at least clearer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Moon View Post
    Didn't want to make a new thread, quick question:

    ESPN recently just changed many players position eligibility, and many people in my pool got screwed. Will these positions change at all between now and the start of the season?? I just traded Zibanejad for a draft pick because he is now useless due to his position. Was that wise?
    Last year ESPN added a tonne of dual positions before the start of the season. Can't remember when but I am checking daily now in my league.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Yahoo! traditionally opens their fantasy hockey up at the end of August/early September every year.
    While I like Yahoo!s fantasy hockey set-up, I'm consistently annoyed by their (and most fantasy website's) positional eligibilities for players.

    If I understand correctly, Yahoo! (ESPN, Fantrax, cbssports, etc.) all get their statistical and positional eligibility information from a "data provider".
    I believe Stats, Inc. and the NHL (NHL.com) are the only two that I am aware of.
    I believe Yahoo's data provider (at least for pos-elig) is the NHL.
    I believe ESPN/Fantrax data provider is Stats, Inc.

    Up through 2010-2011, I think Yahoo!s data provider was Stats, Inc..
    Things changed in 2011-2012.
    Around September 22nd, 2011, (per FHG see this thread) Yahoo! Fantasy Hockey switched over to NHL.com.
    This can now be evidenced from the fantasy section on NHL.com which references Yahoo, here.

    I know we all deal with ridiculousness of incorrect positional eligibility (Byfuglien still being RW/D last year... Burrows consistently listed as LW....)

    This is Yahoo!s text on start-of-year positional eligibility:
    Determining player eligibility in Fantasy Hockey
    Resolution

    Players may be eligible at multiple positions during the current Yahoo! Fantasy Hockey season. Initial position eligibility was determined based on past participation and information supplied by the teams during the off-season to our data provider.


    This year, I've decided to be pro-active to email them in hopes that their data provider (NHL.com?) can get things right.

    A link is here:
    http://io.help.yahoo.com/contact/index
    >Sports
    >Fantasy Hockey
    >Team Management
    >positional eligibility
    Briefly Tell us How We Can Help: (my message) Ovechkin-RW, Neal-RW, Giroux-C, Datsyuk-C... hoping dataProv gets it right.


    If anybody cares about this... send them a similar note.
    I really don't want to be annoyed as $hit about positions again this year.

    If Yahoo! is indeed still tied to NHL.com, then Ovechkin better (BETTER!) open as RW only on Yahoo! Fantasy Hockey.
    There's actually more options for sports "data providers" then Stats Inc and NHL.com. I believe Yahoo is actually currently with the Sports Network via this link: http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/t...t/clients2.htm

    Anyhow, there's other options out there, but Yahoo's provider seems to really be way behind when it comes to hockey positions unfortunately.
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  7. #22
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    I wish they would just give out some additional information about anything. I have to draft this Saturday and know what Wing Ovechkin is playing (or Wings) and if Malkin is still listed as a RW is going to determine who I pick.. Anyone have any idea on when Registration (and thus the positions) will be open?
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  8. #23
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    there's a good chance it will be this week, but I haven't seen any exact date:

    http://help.yahoo.com/communities/in...b436cee4841078

  9. #24
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    I had started a thread on the communities page at the end of August, showing Pengwin's list (from another thread?) and I finally have a detailed response. I've just have had one read through so not sure if it solves anything yet, but thought I'd share with you all.

    If you have questions/suggestions for the guy, feel free to reply directly on this page:

    http://help.yahoo.com/communities/in...lity+craziness

    Hi BN,

    I can tell that this issue has you concerned, and I appreciate your passion for the game, and holding Yahoo Sports accountable for how we do things.... This one is tough, and I too have struggles with it for years, attempting to figure out a way to improve how position eligibility works.

    Couple of factors to consider:

    1) Teams assign a single designation for a player at the beginning of the season and RARELY update or change it in-season.

    2) Players switch lines throughout the season, and will OFTEN play different positions in limited situations.

    3) The NHL does not have an established guideline for position eligibility changes, does not track position play, and has no archives of line changes.

    That being said, I see a bit of sensationalism in the list, but there's also some good points, mostly being that some players are assigned dual eligibility and never lose it, which doesn't line up with how our other games work out.

    You have a lot players in your list with 'played majority', but what else did they do? They lined up as a winger in certain situations, and with enough suggestions and email requests (and TOI at a position), we updated the eligibility, because there is no official tracking, or documentation by the NHL.

    Burns is kind of a funny situation, he could honestly stack up as C, RW, and D, based on his play last year. They switched him out to D in a lot of situations toward the end of last year, and there was a massive push for him to have dual eligibility (Search 'Burns' in the Search Community field at the top of this page for examples).

    Here's my problem. Say we implement something like baseball with pitchers. Must start 10 times at RW/LW, etc, to qualify. There's nothing official to support those requirements. More importantly, as I mentioned before, many players shift to different positions. You think the list is bad now, image after a season of official limits and seeing 3/4 of all players having at least 1 additional eligibility.

    The good news is that I do see a major issue with us not removing eligibility each season for players who maybe changed teams, or have buttoned down a primary position. I plan on addressing this with engineering, as we are misrepresenting eligibility on several players (and have for some time in the case of Byfuglien, and a few others), and need to make sure that doesn't happen.

    The bad news is that once eligibility is assigned, it is not removed for the season, so there is nothing I can image engineering doing about the current state of eligibility. Again, I appreciate your concern with this issue. I see that you have replied on just about every post this topic is being discussed on. While I wish I had a more immediate resolution, we won't have a serious update until next year on this issue.

    What I can recommend is leaving feedback (if you've not done so already) on the Hockey suggestions board. The feedback goes straight to the product team, and is the best way to suggest changes to our games. It allows you to vote up the idea if it's already posted, and therefore raises the issue in priority with product. Here's a direct link:

    http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/20...fantasy-hockey
    Last edited by horrorfan; October 23, 2013 at 6:40 AM.

  10. #25
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    I've always been of the opinion that no positions should be added/removed after the season starts. And ideally, every player would only have ONE position they are eligible for. It would actually give meaning to position eligibility. The way it is right now, it's meaningless, aside from the distinction between F/D. I realize this would lead to a lot of situations where a guy is only eligible for a position he doesn't play, but frankly, I don't care.

    Also, I don't know if ESPN uses a provider or not, but I know that they manually add eligibility as the season goes on. They regularly respond to requests in their forums to update positions, and if you provide evidence, they will change it.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skin Blues View Post
    I've always been of the opinion that no positions should be added/removed after the season starts. And ideally, every player would only have ONE position they are eligible for. It would actually give meaning to position eligibility. The way it is right now, it's meaningless, aside from the distinction between F/D. I realize this would lead to a lot of situations where a guy is only eligible for a position he doesn't play, but frankly, I don't care.

    Also, I don't know if ESPN uses a provider or not, but I know that they manually add eligibility as the season goes on. They regularly respond to requests in their forums to update positions, and if you provide evidence, they will change it.
    I find Yahoo has traditionally done a very poor job updating positions before the season started to manual changes were almost a must. It sucked having guys entering their fourth season as a winger yet Yahoo still had them as C only. But in the end you're right because there is no way to make the in-season changes consistently. IMO everyone should get one position and stick with it for the year (and Yahoo should get off their asses and get it right during the summer). People who don't like it can go with strictly F/D positions.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ericdaoust View Post
    IMO everyone should get one position and stick with it for the year (and Yahoo should get off their asses and get it right during the summer).
    Seriously... how hard would it be to pay a hockey fan a couple hundred bucks to go through team-by-team and predict positions once per season in the summer? Hell, they'd probably have a thousand people willing to do it for free, or they could even crowd-source it.

  13. #28
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    REP to you horrorfan for making the effort to educate Yahoo!

    Society, in general, spends far too much time complaining and not enough time trying to take action.
    [I can't tell you how many uber-political friends I have that like to sit around complaining about the state of a government decision but can't say they've ever written a letter or contacted a local official to formally voice their needs/desires.]
    I applaud your efforts here for pushing this on Yahoo!... they have some great building blocks for a terrific fantasy sports platform and really just needs a few tweaks to get it there.
    I've always been happy with Yahoo!s base product (over other services) and just want them to get the hockey-specifics correct.

    Your efforts reminds me of a good scene from Shawshank Redemption!/Stephen King work... so I figure you'd enjoy this.
    [couldn't find Youtube clip... ]

    Andy, still wearing a confused look on his face, takes the envelope, and pulls out a letter. He reads it out loud so that both the guards, and the audience, can hear.

    ANDY: "Dear Mr. Dufresne: In response to your repeated inquiries, the state has allocated the enclosed funds for your library project."

    Andy reaches into the envelope again and pulls out a check.

    ANDY: This is $200.

    Suddenly realizing what this means, Andy continues reading.

    ANDY: "In addition, the library district has generously responded with a charitable donation of used books and sundries. We trust this will fulfill your needs. We now consider the matter closed. Please stop sending us letters."
    Last edited by Pengwin7; October 23, 2013 at 11:16 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post

    If you have questions/suggestions for the guy, feel free to reply directly on this page:

    http://help.yahoo.com/communities/in...lity+craziness
    FYI.
    I just added this post:


    re:

    [***This part was somebody else's, "Jake", post:]
    Here's my problem. Say we implement something like baseball with pitchers. Must start 10 times at RW/LW, etc, to qualify. There's nothing official to support those requirements. More importantly, as I mentioned before, many players shift to different positions. You think the list is bad now, image after a season of official limits and seeing 3/4 of all players having at least 1 additional eligibility.
    [***End Quote]


    Actually, most televised NHL games post the forward lines & defensive pairings for each team in the first few minutes of game play (even before a line has taken an actual shift). In my opinion, these should be documented and logged as their "Game Start Position". A player's majority position for an NHL season should be his sole designated position for an upcoming season of Yahoo! Fantasy Hockey.

    And dual eligibility could be considered too, with certain pre-set parameters such as:

    *Any player logging 20 (or 10... whatever) "Game Start Positions" will have that position eligibility for the upcoming Yahoo! Fantasy Hockey season. ex. If Jeff Carter plays LW-23, C-14, RW-45... he'd be LW/RW for an upcoming Yahoo! Fantasy Hockey season.


    I think the overall problem is that nobody is logging an official Game-Start-Position.

    Make some position eligibility criteria, inform your customer base, stick to it.

    My 2 cents.

  15. #30
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    Nice reply and good suggestion, Pengwin. Look forward to his response...whenever it appears.

    Yep, like Shawshank, keep bugging them until they do something. Though I think that's the reason for the new IR+ suddenly appearing (if you see other posts on communities and user voice). But I digress.

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