Parise or Stepan

[Shake]

I am a Stepan owner, but I don't know who Rookin is. I just frankly think Stepan is the better player. Hard to argue a player that plays that well at such a young age.

Stop this madness.

[ericdaoust]

We need Eugene Melnyk's forensics team.

[staj18]

Why is everyone thinking Parise is God compared to Stepan.

Lets take a look at this seasons stats:

Parise : 48 GP - 18 G - 20 A - 38 pts / + 2 - 16 PIMS
Stepan : 48 GP - 18 G - 26 A - 44 pts / +12 - 25 pims (plus he gets FW's)



Now lets look at the past couple season for each player...

Parise - 2008-09 : 1.146 pts per game
- 2009-10 : 1.012 pts per game
- 2010-11 : injured
- 2011-12 : .8414 pts per game
- 2012-13 : .7917 pts per game..

Now looking at that, does a decline over the past 4 seasons look bright for a 28 year old? No, I wouldn't think so. A decline in points per game is not a good sign for Parise. I doubt he is even a point per game player now.

Now why don't we check out Stepan..

Stepan - 2010-11 (rookie year ) - .5487 pts per game
- 2011-12 - .6291 pts per game
- 2012-13 - .9166 pts per game

PLUS he gets FW's....


Stepan has increased in points per game in each of his 3 three NHL seasons..he is the offensive leader on a potent rangers offense.

Stepan is 6 years younger than Parise, and looking at the numbers of the players in this current day, I just don't understand why all of you have a hard on for Parise vs Stepan.

[lucifer316]

1. I don't believe you.
2. Stepan's production to date is not more impressive than Parise's production at around the same age and with Stepan's average (at best) skating abilities I don't ever see him having Parise-like seasons.

94 points in 163 games for parise

140 points in 212 games for stepan

that was the nhl production at the same age for the two

i dont know seems more impressive to me

and i have to be honest i dont see parise having any more parise like seasons either

people keep saying its coming but it was twice in 8 seasons now

those werent his norm they were outliers

[Dakkster]

This thread has certainly turned out to be more entertaining than expected Carry on

[vandalay]

We don't all have a hard on for Parise. Apparently there is a diverse group of posters that joined this forum this month that absolutely love Stepan! (+ lucifer, a Rangers fan who would be expected to love Stepan and despise Parise)

Stepan is a very nice player but I think you just saw a career season out of him in terms of points per game, along with numerous other players whose points per game stats were skewed by a short season. You guys can go ahead and act like this past season was a season like any other but eventually you will realize that you were wrong about that. Oh, and the whole "he's 6 years younger" argument? That might have some bearing if Parise were say 33 years old but he's still plenty young.

[lucifer316]

We don't all have a hard on for Parise. Apparently there is a diverse group of posters that joined this forum this month that absolutely love Stepan! (+ lucifer, a Rangers fan who would be expected to love Stepan and despise Parise)

excuse me

where exactly is my post that shows love of stepan and despising of parise

you shouldnt cast these kind of accusations at people this doesnt move the conversation one single bit

i already said stepan is probably only a 60-65 point player going forward and that parise is a 65-70 point forward

hardly love and hate there

Stepan is a very nice player but I think you just saw a career season out of him in terms of points per game, along with numerous other players whose points per game stats were skewed by a short season. You guys can go ahead and act like this past season was a season like any other but eventually you will realize that you were wrong about that. Oh, and the whole "he's 6 years younger" argument? That might have some bearing if Parise were say 33 years old but he's still plenty young.

and likewise we have already seen the career seasons out of parise

2 seasons out of 8 several years ago does not make him a point per game player going forward

parise is a 65-70 point player look at the stats they dont lie

just like this past season was an outlier for stepan and it was he will never do that again those ppg game seasons were outliers for parise he will never do them again

people have this love of parise which is beyond all reason in here

he is what he is and that is a 65-70 point player

[staj18]

lucifer is bang on here. parise is a 65-70 pt forward, and from what Stepan has been doing, i believe he is exactly that too. Why wouldn't you take a chance on a guy who is steadily improving rather than a guy on a decline? It seems people are still valuing Parise, as the guy who got 94 points in a season several years ago.

[Kofax]

I think the problem is the following:

Although I agree with the assessment that Parise will most likely produce at a 65-70 point pace, I feel that's more of a floor for him, and his upside lies around 90 if it all clicks (unlikely, but possible).

Stepan on the other hand is coming off a career year, and given a full season, his upside probably tops out at 65-70 points. Maybe you can push that to 70-75 if it all comes together, but that's probably his absolute ceiling. It's more likely he comes in between 60-65.

If you feel the FOW Stepan provides (which is absolutely solid, I agree) are more valuable than the Parise floor, upside and shots, then by all means, make the trade. In my personal opinion points are harder to come by then FOW. You can find a specialist like Bozak or someone at a much lower cost. I would pass on this deal.

[lucifer316]

i am sorry but when you have a rate of production for 6 of your 8 seasons that is not a floor that is your rate of production

if stepans career year isnt his upside parises career year isnt his

parise is going to be 29 years old in almost exactly 2 months there is no upside this isnt a developing player he is what he is

[Kofax]

i am sorry but when you have a rate of production for 6 of your 8 seasons that is not a floor that is your rate of production

if stepans career year isnt his upside parises career year isnt his

parise is going to be 29 years old in almost exactly 2 months there is no upside this isnt a developing player he is what he is

6 of 8 seasons with a minimum of a 62 point pace (and the 2 other seasons being his rookie season and a 13 game injuired campaign) sure sounds like a floor to me. If it's not, then I don't know what is.

The two seasons where he posted 82 and 94 points is the upside.

Stepan isn't there and I can't see him reaching more than 75 points.

There's a chance I'm wrong. I own the guy, so I like him and hold hope he does exceed my expectations, but I don't think he will. But that's why we play the game. If you think otherwise, agree to disagree.

[Bass56]

Am I the only one weirded out by the incredible enthusiasm for Stepan posted by staj18, MylesJulien and George Karman? The first two have their first posts in this thread and the third has six total posts. I might be crazy, but it looks to me like the guy you're trading with found this thread and is trying a bit too hard to sway your decision to his advantage

HEHE, I saw the same thing... was hoping I could get the scoop but you beat me to it. Anyways, I have a hunch that GeorgeKarman, MylesJulien and FantasyGod are the same person. I think staj18 is not part of this 3-some.

Here is my analysis:
- All 3 members have posts mainly in this thread (all have less than 5 posts to their account)
- All 3 members joined in May 2013 (coincidentally after this thread was posted?)
- All 3 members are 2 names beginning with a capital letter in each without any spaces GK, MJ, FG
- FantasyGod plays the devil's advocate to sway away any signs that he is connected to the other Stepan lovers but he makes the mistake of asking for the cap ranges for a player of Stepan's calibre without ''knowing anything'' prior to doing so as the initial thread never listed any such information ($20-$30 player)... As previously mentionned, a new member would not ask that type of question.


I could probably dig a bit more but this smells fishier than a bass out of water!


EDIT: add JayIKing to the list...

[HockeyProphet]

Top 300

#20 Parise: 102 'Dobber points'
#33 Stepan: 82 'Dobber points'

10 point variable, points only...

This leaves out the FOW, but like its been mentioned, could be made up elsewhere.

HOWEVER, even with stats aside, you should be able to get more value out of trading Parise then what is being offered; if not because of actual value, then apparent value.

[HockeyProphet]

HEHE, I saw the same thing... was hoping I could get the scoop but you beat me to it. Anyways, I have a hunch that GeorgeKarman, MylesJulien and FantasyGod are the same person. I think staj18 is not part of this 3-some.

Here is my analysis:
- All 3 members have posts mainly in this thread (all have less than 5 posts to their account)
- All 3 members joined in May 2013 (coincidentally after this thread was posted?)
- All 3 members are 2 names beginning with a capital letter in each without any spaces GK, MJ, FG
- FantasyGod plays the devil's advocate to sway away any signs that he is connected to the other Stepan lovers but he makes the mistake of including the cap ranges for a player of Stepan's calibre without ''knowing anything'' prior to doing so as the initial thread never listed any such information ($20-$30 player)...


I could probably dig a bit more but this smells fishier than a bass out of water!


EDIT: add JayIKing to the list...

I have to be careful what I say.. HockeyProphet fits the bill of 'bass out of water' haha

[Bass56]

I have to be careful what I say.. HockeyProphet fits the bill of 'bass out of water' haha

Ya but that's only 1 of the 3 points. The correlation between all 3 + point 4) = fishiness

You're ''off the hook'' HP