Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Top-10 Picks – Analysis of a 10-Year Period

  1. #1
    Akkei's Avatar
    Akkei is offline
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    177
    Rep Power
    20

    Dobber Sports Prodigy

    Default Top-10 Picks – Analysis of a 10-Year Period

    I have been reviewing some numbers for the purpose of making up my mind on the value of a top draft pick at the next draft in a point-only league. I was about to post some of my findings in the forums, but my post was turning out to be very long and I decided to make an article out of it.

    I have hesitated before posting this because the analysis is flawed due to incomplete data. I am however convinced that this does not significantly impact the end results. I have explained directly in the article my views on this.

    You will find my article below. I hope you will find it useful.

    P.S. English is not my mother tongue, so the text may have some language oddities.

  2. #2
    Akkei's Avatar
    Akkei is offline
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    177
    Rep Power
    20

    Dobber Sports Prodigy

    Default

    Top-10 Picks – Analysis of a 10-Year Period

    The 2012 level entry draft is fast approaching and this period will often generate substantial trading activity in fantasy pools. With all the hype associated with the draft, it is often difficult to remain objective in the evaluation of the top draft picks and in setting expectations in terms of potential future production.

    By reviewing the performance of players that were drafted in the top-10 between the 1999 entry draft and the 2008 draft, we hope to establish some clear trends that may help any GM in determining the value of a high pick at the draft.

    For the purpose of this analysis, players are categorized as follows based on their achieved production in any given year:

    • Star Player: 80+ points for a forward, 50+ points for a defenseman, 40+ wins for a goalie
    • Core Player: 70+ points for a forward, 40+ points for a defenseman, 30+ wins for a goalie
    • Fantasy Relevant Player: 60+ points for a forward, 30+ points for a defenseman, 20+ wins for a goalie


    This analysis is strictly based on absolute numbers and cold hard facts. It does not take into consideration perceived value, missed opportunities due to injuries or peripheral statistics. The purpose of this analysis is to assist in qualifying the value of a high draft pick, not to evaluate the career of the draftees. That is the reason why draftees are categorized on their achieved production in any given year (as opposed to their career production) with the assumption that, under the right circumstances, these players can replicate the same production.

    All this being considered, below are the findings of this analysis and the conclusions that may be drawn from it.

    a) Players selected in the top-3 are gold?

    The top draftees of each year are often touted as the most gifted players of their draft class, often being in a class of their own. But to what extent is a top-3 draft pick more likely to turn into a star player than its pears selected a few ranks below?

    Of all players that were selected in the top-3, 46%(14 out of 30) of them have achieved a star player-like production at least once in their career. Out of these players, 86% (12 out of 14) have achieved that level of production at least twice and 64% (9 out of 14) three times or more.

    This success rate falls off dramatically when we look at the 70 players that were drafted between the 4th and 10th positions in the reviewed period. Only six of them have generated a production worthy of a star player (of which only two players – Nicklas Backstrom and Dion Phaneuf – have to this date achieved that production level more than once).

    In other words, if the fact that 46% of the top-3 players have achieved stardom seems a low figure, it is still a very good probability when we consider that only 9% of the draftees selected behind them in the top-10 will be stars. What is even more revealing is that only three forwards in that group of 70 players (Nicklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel and Thomas Vanek) have had at least one season of over 80 points, which shows how unlikely a high draft pick outside of the top-3 is of generating a high-end point producer for your team.

    Conclusions:
    (1) Not surprisingly, holding a pick in the top-3 is your best bet at selecting a star in the making. The value of these picks is very significantly higher than a pick between 4th and 10th position.
    (2) If you have a top-3 pick, it is probably not a good idea to trade down with the expectation that the player you will be choosing a few ranks below have a similar upside.

    b) Shooting for the stars is nice, but what about core players?

    Having elite player on your team certainly help winning your pool, but commons sense suggests that a GM cannot win without depth. A sizeable group of core player is generally necessary to overcome your opponents.

    There were 100 players drafted in the period that was reviewed. From this group, over half of them (53 out of 100) have never been fantasy relevant for even a single season in the NHL.

    Out of these fantasy relevant draftees, 68% of them (32 out of 47) have had at least one season where they have produced at a core level. In other words, if you succeed in selecting a fantasy relevant player in the top-10, there is a solid chance that this player can fit in the core of your roster.

    Of course, drafting a player that has a strong chance of producing at a core-player level is nice, but consistency is even more important for these players. For the same group of fantasy relevant players, it should be noted that 60% (28 out of 47) have had a fantasy relevant production for a minimum of three years and 36% (17 out of 47) have produced at a core level for three seasons or more.

    These figures are however based on the premise that you will be successful in selecting a fantasy relevant player in the top-10. The numbers are however less impressive when we look at the overall picture and we re-include the irrelevant players into the analysis. For the top draftees taken over that 10-year period, only 32% (32 out of 100) of them have had the production to qualify as a core player for at least one year, and 17% (17 out of 100) for three years or more.

    But wait! These numbers include the star players selected in the top-3. If we strictly look at the players selected between the 4th and the 10th position, only 14% (10 out of 70) of them have had the production to qualify as a core player for at least one year, and a dismissive 3% (2 out of 70) has done the same for three years or more.

    Conclusions:
    (1) Selecting in the top-10 is a hit or miss exercise. If you are successful in picking a fantasy relevant player at the draft, chances are that he will be part of your core group of players.
    (2) Do not overpay to acquire a top draft pick. If someone is offering you a core player for your fouth and sixth overall picks, then do not get blinded by the excitement of the draft period and accept the deal. To put things into perspective and if all other factors are considered equal, a GM would need to acquire all seven picks between the 4th and 10th position in return of his core player to make it an even trade.

    c) That is all very interesting, but these numbers are incomplete.

    The obvious criticism of the analysis performed above is that several of these players are still playing in the NHL today and therefore these numbers are not representative of their expected achievements over their career. As mentioned previously, the purpose of this analysis is to evaluate the draft picks, not the drafted players themselves.

    Still, all the draftees in the reviewed period have had the opportunity to play in the NHL for four full seasons at the very least. When we look at the forwards that were able to achieve a star-like production, 73% of them (11 out of 15) have achieved that level of product at some point during the first four years following their draft year. Only the Sedins, Marian Gaborik and Phil Kessel have taken more time to achieve that production level. There may be a few players in the last few years of the reviewed period that will bring their game to another level in the future, but the trends established are unlikely to change. As such, the rates of success exposed above are likely to improve if the analysis is redone when all these players are retired, but not significantly.

    All in all, although the analysis is not perfect for that reason, hopefully this 10-year period provides a portrait of the NHL that is more current, and as a result can more reliably be extrapolated to 2012 draftees than a review of the production of the players that were drafted in the 80s and early 90s.

    Conclusions:
    (1) Do not hold on your prospects forever. For every Phil Kessel who succeeds in achieving his potential somewhat later in his career, there are some Jordan Staals that always seem to be on the brink of making it to the next level but never quite get there, there are many Benoit Pouliots who are perennial underachievers and quite a few Pavel Brendls who only bring back bad memories.
    (2) Take this analysis for what it is: a means of helping you to evaluate the value of a high pick. Do not discard its findings because of the potential slight variance of the overall results. If there is one thing that this analysis demonstrates unequivocally, it is that high picks beyond the top-3 are marginal assets when compared to the top ones.

  3. #3
    dongjohnson's Avatar
    dongjohnson is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,572
    Rep Power
    26

    Dobber Sports Veteran

    Default

    I agree and think you've made some good points. Drafts in points-only leagues are so tricky once you get out of the top 2 or 3, most of the time. 5th and 15th picks are valued so differently but often have only a small difference when only offense matters.
    12 team Full Dynasty w cap. 13F, 7D, 2G, 5B.
    G 4.25, A 2.75, PPP 1.5, SHP 3, Hits 0.4, Blocks 0.5, PIM 0.25, DFP 1
    W 5 OTL 1 SO 6 SV 0.25 L-1 GS 1

    F:Stamkos, C Stew, R Johansen, B Dubinsky, Max Pac, Umberger, B Ryan, D Backes, T Ruutu, Lucic, Ott, MSL, Heatley, C Kunitz, J Benn, L Adam

    D: C Fowler, Kronwall, A Goligoski, JM Liles, M Giordano, K Letang, N Nikitin, R Josi

    G: J Quick, A Niemi, C Anderson, Rinne


  4. #4
    TheRook's Avatar
    TheRook is offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    923
    Rep Power
    21

    Dobber Sports Initiate

    Default

    nice job.

    thats what makes this site so valuable. Being able to get a more in depth player perspective on draftees. It allows you a better chance of grabbing a player who can contribute to your team if you do not have a top 3 pick.

    Its about trying to get the most information and making your best judgement call. I think sometimes we tend to get too caught up in the hype of a prospect.
    UFHP - Y! 12 GMs - 23/8 pro/farm - keep 17 + all farm
    G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, FW; GS, W, L, GA, GAA, SA, SV, SV%, SHO

    C: Backstrom, Crosby, Little, Zetterberg, Rask
    LW: Foligno, Ehlers, Skinner, Hartnell, Jokinen, Ladd
    RW: Tarasenko, Kessel, Nash, Marner
    D: Keith, Karlsson, Klingberg, Werenski, Barrie, Manson
    G: Price, Murray, Andersen

    Farm:
    C: Keller
    LW: Fiala, Heinen
    RW: Gurianov
    D: Sergachev, Beaulieu, Manning, Borowiecki
    G: Forsberg, Driedger


  5. #5
    Rep Power
    0

    Dobber Sports Sophomore

    Default

    Love this write up. Nicely done Akkei!
    10 Team, 27 Player (9 Fwds, 6 D-men, 2 Goalies, 10 Taxi Spots), Points Only Keeper League

    Fwds: Malkin, Stamkos, Toews, Kessel, Benn, Elias, Kunitz, Roy, Berglund, Ennis, Stepan, Purcell, Tanguay, Ladd, Bennett
    D-Men: Campbell, Enstrom, Byfuglien, Goligoski, Del Zotto, Visnovsky, Hamhuis, Souray, Brodin
    Goalies: Miller, Rinne, Ward, Crawford

  6. #6
    Location
    Ontario
    Rep Power
    40

    Administrator

    Default

    I once did a research like this in high school for stats class but the project was canceled and sadly I lost the information, but it involved something like 1997 to 2002. I had found very similar results, both in terms of the failure of prospects to meet the lofty expectations and in terms of the development time needed to build players up to their peak.

    It really boils down to the fact that there's only so much ice time to go around, and thus only so much points to go around.


    Contact me for Frozen Tools bug reports and inquiries
    Follow Frozen Tools on Twitter @FrozenTools
    Follow me on Twitter @DH_EricDaoust

  7. #7
    Rep Power
    16

    Dobber Sports Prodigy

    Default Great Stuff

    Awesome, love stuff like this!
    WHL - World Hockey League (24-Team Daily H2H)
    Weighted Scoring: G(1),A(1),PPP(0.5),+/-(0.5), SOG/PIM/HIT/BLK(all 0.05), FOW-C(0.01)

    Fall River's Finest
    C(3): Malkin, Kesler, Hanzal
    LW(3): Lucic, Perron, Chimera
    RW(3): Eberle, R. Smith, Doan
    F(3): Stafford (RW), Parenteau (RW), Eakin (C)
    D(6): S. Weber, Suter, Giordano, Yandle, Chara, Polak
    G(1): Miller [+ Niemi, Zatkoff]
    Bench: Filppula (C), Ferland (LW), Stalberg (LW), Weise (RW)

    Prospects(10): Roy (C), Tambellini (C), Andreoff (LW), Jensen (LW), Sorensen (RW), Morin (RW), DeMelo (D), Berube (G), Campbell (G)

  8. #8
    plug's Avatar
    plug is offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,547
    Rep Power
    43

    Dobber Sports Veteran

    Default

    Pretty cool.... so by the standards set... what was the chance that Giroux would have posted what he has done... (I don't even want to do the research, just curious)...

    22nd pick.

  9. #9
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Deity

    Default

    Funny, Eberle and MaxPac were also taken 22nd overall. I didnt look too hard, but I knew those 2 off the top of my head for some reason. Maybe theres something to be said for being picked at that stage.
    10 Team, Points Only, Cash League

    25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
    Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
    Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt

    Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink

    G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger


    "Cleavage is like the sun. You can look, but dont stare.. Unless you're wearing sunglasses."

  10. #10
    GMGates's Avatar
    GMGates is offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,229
    Location
    Hamilton
    Rep Power
    25

    Dobber Sports Assistant Manager

    Default

    Beauty, plugging this into the homepage twitter feed.

    Great stuff, hope to see you deliver more!
    Gates Imbeau
    DobberHockey's HHOF - 2013 Builder's Category
    Twitter: @GM_Gates

  11. #11
    Location
    Pickering
    Rep Power
    40

    I...am your father.

    Default

    Well done

    Depending on how deep your league is, I found that my league draft really fell off after the 15th pick. Then we've added goalies and defensemen, which has pushed the relevant pick number to the low 20s (but need more drafts to really tell for sure).
    The Best Fantasy Hockey Site

    15-Team Keeper, points only, best 12 fwd, 4 dman, 2 G count. Playoffs count.

    F - T. Thompson, Thomas, Nylander, Tarasenko, Arvidsson, Guentzel, Fiala, Quinn, Mittelstadt, Hagel, Zacha, Roslovic, Berggren, Brink, Ostlund
    G - Kahkonen, Vejmelka, L. Thompson, Levi, Comrie
    D - Hronek, Morrissey, Lundkvist, Girard, Brannstrom, Rathbone, Hanifin, Severson, Durzi

  12. #12
    blayze's Avatar
    blayze is offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    15,279
    Location
    Toronto
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Ninja

    Default

    Very insightful stuff, well done Akkei!

  13. #13
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Grand Master

    Default

    Great writeup man. I've done a bunch of draft research of my own and intended to write on it but don't think I'll ever get that far.

  14. #14
    Akkei's Avatar
    Akkei is offline
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    177
    Rep Power
    20

    Dobber Sports Prodigy

    Default

    Thanks everyone for the comments.

    Re the value of the 22nd pick: I am also curious about this. I wonder if holding a pick in the 15-25 range may in the end prove to be almost as valuable as the 8th or 9th overall pick. If so, then trading down for multiple draft picks may prove to be an approach to seriously consider. I may look into it and will post my findings here if I do.

  15. #15
    arctic_rogue's Avatar
    arctic_rogue is offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,445
    Rep Power
    34

    Dobber Sports Pro

    Default

    Well done indeed. Fantastic read!
    __________________________________________________ __________________
    UHL Dynasty St. Louis Blues
    ...playoffs, how the eff did I make the playoffs?

    UDL Western Kings
    ...oh boy... this build is gonna be a while...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •