Letang

[dyzfunctioned]

Ugh. Brutal..

[ross10019]

He has to make an attempt to avoid that hit, he makes no attempt whatsoever and despite what certain pundits are saying he DID have time - a slight move to the left and his very hard shoulder pad doesn't connect with Letang's chin.

Tired of piece of crap nobody waiver wire fodder players taking out superstars with headshots.

[fungchen3]

He has to make an attempt to avoid that hit, he makes no attempt whatsoever

This was my initial reaction last night when I first saw the hit live. I agree with you 100% from a "moral" standpoint, but the more I watched the replay and heard others' point-of-view, it's apparent that the hit is not "illegal" because of the way Letang exposed himself to be hit at the end of the play.

When Shanahan watches this, he'll factor in that Nystrom had the elbow tucked, leaned with the shoulder, and that the hit was primed to be a textbook "shoulder to shoulder" hit until Letang reached out and "put his head out there" when he really didn't need to.

It's also a factor when Letang's own coach said the hit wasn't dirty and that he would have liked to see Letang make the play differently and protect himself properly. So, was it a "bad" hit? Yes. Was it "illegal"? I have to say no.

That said, this goes back to "respect". Whether the hit was illegal or not, I agree with you completely that Nystrom could have easily bailed on the hit altogether and just went solely for the puck. And I bet if you asked Nystrom, after seeing the end result, he'd probably say he should have held up. But does he have to? No. Some will argue he gets paid to finish his checks and if he doesn't, he's not doing his job. Some will say Letang needs to protect himself. The reality is, both are right.

That is the "issue" we will always have with these hits. It's not always black and white. A "clean" hit could easily do 10x the damage that a "dirty" hit could. I would like to see the players respect each other more, but I don't want to see hitting removed from the game altogether, which might end up being the case if "legal" checks continue to cause major damage and remove the stars from the game.

[grindin griers]

This was my initial reaction last night when I first saw the hit live. I agree with you 100% from a "moral" standpoint, but the more I watched the replay and heard others' point-of-view, it's apparent that the hit is not "illegal" because of the way Letang exposed himself to be hit at the end of the play.

When Shanahan watches this, he'll factor in that Nystrom had the elbow tucked, leaned with the shoulder, and that the hit was primed to be a textbook "shoulder to shoulder" hit until Letang reached out and "put his head out there" when he really didn't need to.

It's also a factor when Letang's own coach said the hit wasn't dirty and that he would have liked to see Letang make the play differently and protect himself properly. So, was it a "bad" hit? Yes. Was it "illegal"? I have to say no.

That said, this goes back to "respect". Whether the hit was illegal or not, I agree with you completely that Nystrom could have easily bailed on the hit altogether and just went solely for the puck. And I bet if you asked Nystrom, after seeing the end result, he'd probably say he should have held up. But does he have to? No. Some will argue he gets paid to finish his checks and if he doesn't, he's not doing his job. Some will say Letang needs to protect himself. The reality is, both are right.

That is the "issue" we will always have with these hits. It's not always black and white. A "clean" hit could easily do 10x the damage that a "dirty" hit could. I would like to see the players respect each other more, but I don't want to see hitting removed from the game altogether, which might end up being the case if "legal" checks continue to cause major damage and remove the stars from the game.

Couldn't have said it any better.

[ross10019]

This was my initial reaction last night when I first saw the hit live. I agree with you 100% from a "moral" standpoint, but the more I watched the replay and heard others' point-of-view, it's apparent that the hit is not "illegal" because of the way Letang exposed himself to be hit at the end of the play.

When Shanahan watches this, he'll factor in that Nystrom had the elbow tucked, leaned with the shoulder, and that the hit was primed to be a textbook "shoulder to shoulder" hit until Letang reached out and "put his head out there" when he really didn't need to.

It's also a factor when Letang's own coach said the hit wasn't dirty and that he would have liked to see Letang make the play differently and protect himself properly. So, was it a "bad" hit? Yes. Was it "illegal"? I have to say no.

That said, this goes back to "respect". Whether the hit was illegal or not, I agree with you completely that Nystrom could have easily bailed on the hit altogether and just went solely for the puck. And I bet if you asked Nystrom, after seeing the end result, he'd probably say he should have held up. But does he have to? No. Some will argue he gets paid to finish his checks and if he doesn't, he's not doing his job. Some will say Letang needs to protect himself. The reality is, both are right.

That is the "issue" we will always have with these hits. It's not always black and white. A "clean" hit could easily do 10x the damage that a "dirty" hit could. I would like to see the players respect each other more, but I don't want to see hitting removed from the game altogether, which might end up being the case if "legal" checks continue to cause major damage and remove the stars from the game.

Great points. But when you look at the replay, Letang starts to lean forward into that vulnerable position WAY BEFORE Nystrom ever reaches him, Nystrom has the equivalent of hours (in hockey terms) to react and avoid contact. But rather than avoid contact, he even leans into Letang slightly to ensure contact. So while I agree the main question is respect and avoiding injury even with clean checks, to me this is still borderline illegal - as compared to the Malone/Campoli hit, where the main reason for no supplementary discipline was the last second change of position of Campoli, here there was no "last second", Letang reaches over well before Nystrom ever gets there. So the main factor that saved Malone there isn't prevalent here, and you had contact to the head as principal point, so could easily be supplemental discipline.

Bylsma's comments have more to do with the fact that he could care less what supplemental discipline is or is not meted out, his main concern (and rightly so) is that his players be as vigilant as possible to avoid injury and Letang's play, regardless of the nature of the hit, unnecessarily put his head in a quite vulnerable position. I assume Bylsma would have much preferred that Letang skate towards the puck rather than reach for it. Understandable, although it's difficult for a player not to instinctively make the play that Letang did, to poke it past an oncoming forechecker and initiate a breakout, it happens so many times each game.

Anyway, all that matters in the end is yet another superstar sidelined due to a hit to the head, whether legal or not. Roenick can blather all he wants but in the end it's bad for the game to have this happen even with legal hits.

[elTIGREblanc]

This is a hockey play that needs to be removed from hockey.

- Hitter made zero attempt for the puck. He skated away from the puck to make the hit. He was skating into the corner way too fast to be able to stop and make a play on the puck.
- Hittee was in vulnerable position, hitter chose to hit the head. Nystrom moves his arm off his body at the last moment to target the head. Would have hit Letangs right shoulder otherwise.

The point of the game is take the puck and put in the other net. This culture of wanting to make the "big hit" is ruining hockey. We are letting guys take out the opposing players by letting them skate as fast as the can and bodycheck them into a 6 month concussion, instead of using skill to pass/skate around them.

Take the Neil on Boychuk from a couple of days ago. Clean hit, Boychuk had the puck, Neil hit him square in the chest. But what did it accomplish? Did his team get the puck back? Was his team in a better position to score? No. All it did was send some guy to a dark room for the next month. What is the value in that? The crowd gets a thrill out of it and 99000 people get to watch it on youtube, great. But is that thrill worth risking Boychuk's health like that? Is worth him having potentially lifelong brain injuries (ask Keith Primeau) for the sake of us getting a barbaric charge of seeing someone get rocked? It's mf 2012, not Ancient Rome.

Rule changes the fans must pressure hockey to do, as they refuse to make changes that might hurt their bottom line$:

Rule 1. If you are making contact with a player (bodycheck) without attempting to make a play for the the puck before or after the contact, then that is an interference penalty. Penalty ranging 2 minutes to Suspension, depending on the severity of the hit.

Rule 2. Contact to the head should be called like highsticking. Accidental or not, if the major point of contact is the head, then it's 5 minutes +. End of story.

Sorry I went on rant here but I am so pissed about this. We need to make the NHL take a page of the NFL rule book, protect the players so we can enjoy a game full of skill. Gooning takes skill out of the game. I would pay to watch Letang play, not Nystrom. I don't pay to see people get carried off the ice in stretchers. That is all.

[ross10019]

I would pay to watch Letang play, not Nystrom. I don't pay to see people get carried off the ice in stretchers. That is all.

F'n right about that.

I don't think it's necessary to completely remove "finishing checks" but I think this idea that the players have been taught to do that all their lives is not convincing. Why were they taught to finish checks? To take the opposing player out of the play and also to intimidate/punish the player so that the next time they might rush the play to avoid the pain that comes with getting hit, especially when you're off-balance, etc. I think it depends on how long after the puck is gone that you make the hit, and it's a judgment call, but if it's gone long enough I agree make it an interference penalty.

On that play, Nystrom could care less that the puck was just chipped past him, he's hunting down Letang and "finishing his check". Now we get to watch Nystrom instead of Letang for however many games, wonderful.

Don't get me wrong, I've always loved the role player in hockey, the rugged hitter, the guy who doesn't have as much skill but who makes up for it with aggressive forechecking and dogged termination, guys who make the other team pay a physical price. It's a key part of the game, part of its fabric, and what makes NHL playoff hockey, in particular, the absolute best tournament competition in pro sports. And these are the guys who so many years are the true cogs that win teams Stanley Cups, not the scorers, but the pluggers. I also understand that this is the way these guys earn their paychecks, and if guys like Nystrom aren't aggressively forechecking and hitting, they're useless and will be replaced. But they can still have that impact without risking unnecessary injury to any player, let alone a star player who is marquee in the league. They can still play that role in a context where all players are better protected against serious injury and especially concussions.

[Chuk]

I am a big fan of hitting and physical play. I would prefer the hits to remain, but as has been stated there is very little respect in the game.

Letang made a hockey play, he moved the puck, he also put himself in a vulnerable position. Nystrom finished his check, did his job as a checker and made ZERO effort to play the puck, instead focusing on laying Letang out.

I want Letang to make that play, the other option is to have him spin away from the check and potentially leave the puck there for Nystrom to collect, if he is capable or aware enough to refocus on the puck and let Letang go at that point. My guess is that Letang avoids nystrom, Nystrom looks awkward attempting to hit letang (potentially raising his elbow or sticking his leg out) and the puck is loose creating a scramble.


I honestly believe that the move to remove fighting, the introduction of the instigator rule have lead us down this path.

Go back 10 years. Letang makes that play, Nystrom has 3 options:

1: play the puck
2: Put a body on Letang and prevent him from advancing the play
3: Lay letang out and know that both you and your teammates will be in for a war for the remainder of the game for taking a run at a star player.

Say what you will, but the proof seems to be that there is little to no respect out there between players. The pressure and the competition has created a culture that is closer to "win at all costs" than mutual respect or accountability.

The league has proven for the last decade that it is unable to artificially implement respect. They have done nothing to control the equipment, they have increased the speed, they have given the NHLPA a free pass and they put all the blame on Campbell. now they have Shanny whose quirky videos and in-depth analysis are starting to wear thin as he too attempts to define these "hits" in an impossible set of circumstances. He will be an "idiot" and "biased" by the end of the year, mark my words.

The NHL should control what they can (equipments, rules etc), the NHLPA should police themselves on and off the ice or just be honest with the fans.

Tell them that the stars who make millions, sell shirts and lead your team to the cup are just as likely to be concussed as they are on the ice when you fork out hundreds of dollars per ticket.

I hope Letang recovers quickly.

[Hollywood]

Any updates on his status or his injury???

[pianoman]

Say what you will, but the proof seems to be that there is little to no respect out there between players. The pressure and the competition has created a culture that is closer to "win at all costs" than mutual respect or accountability.

What the league needs isn't an intent based rule. There should be an outcomes based rule too. If you arbitrarily punish EVERY head shot regardless of intent with a minimum of 5 games, guys will start to be careful about it.

10 games for intent (regardless of actually hitting the head or not). 5 for any head shot.

It comes down to this: If you want people to stop going for the head start punishing them for it.
I also agree with your statement about the equipment having little to no regulation in that regard. Change the shoulder pads so that if you are going to take a run at a guy, you're taking a chance with your shoulder too.

[actual injury info: just checked espn, tsn, pensburgh and google, nothing beyond "UBI". pensburgh is the only one with the balls to call it a concussion but that's just them speculating. Twitter: "@JoshYohe_Trib Not expecting Pens to have Letang update. Usually take a few days. But will let you know. Practice is at 2 (PGH time) at Univ of Denver"]

[letangerang58]

Great points. But when you look at the replay, Letang starts to lean forward into that vulnerable position WAY BEFORE Nystrom ever reaches him, Nystrom has the equivalent of hours (in hockey terms) to react and avoid contact. But rather than avoid contact, he even leans into Letang slightly to ensure contact. So while I agree the main question is respect and avoiding injury even with clean checks, to me this is still borderline illegal - as compared to the Malone/Campoli hit, where the main reason for no supplementary discipline was the last second change of position of Campoli, here there was no "last second", Letang reaches over well before Nystrom ever gets there. So the main factor that saved Malone there isn't prevalent here, and you had contact to the head as principal point, so could easily be supplemental discipline.

Bylsma's comments have more to do with the fact that he could care less what supplemental discipline is or is not meted out, his main concern (and rightly so) is that his players be as vigilant as possible to avoid injury and Letang's play, regardless of the nature of the hit, unnecessarily put his head in a quite vulnerable position. I assume Bylsma would have much preferred that Letang skate towards the puck rather than reach for it. Understandable, although it's difficult for a player not to instinctively make the play that Letang did, to poke it past an oncoming forechecker and initiate a breakout, it happens so many times each game.

Anyway, all that matters in the end is yet another superstar sidelined due to a hit to the head, whether legal or not. Roenick can blather all he wants but in the end it's bad for the game to have this happen even with legal hits.

I agree with you. Letangs move towards the puck came way before the hit. You could see that Nystrom was originally going to play the puck but he decided to make the hit when he saw Letang reach for the puck. He should have known that Letang was in a vulnerable position and I think he did. He took advantage of a loophole to take out a star player. Ok maybe that's a little extreme but I think that Letang put himself into a vulnerable position before Nystrom made the decision to hit.

I think the only way Letang was going to reach this puck before Nystrom was if he reached for it. If Letang doesn't make contact with the puck Nystrom wouldn't have hit him because it would have been interference so he had to know Letang would have to be in a vulnerable position to make this hit.

Also the whole elbow vs shoulder thing is b.s. because Cookes hit to Savaard was shoulder not elbow. The shoulder can be just as much of a weapon.

[93213]

This is a hockey play that needs to be removed from hockey.

- Hitter made zero attempt for the puck. He skated away from the puck to make the hit. He was skating into the corner way too fast to be able to stop and make a play on the puck.
- Hittee was in vulnerable position, hitter chose to hit the head. Nystrom moves his arm off his body at the last moment to target the head. Would have hit Letangs right shoulder otherwise.

The point of the game is take the puck and put in the other net. This culture of wanting to make the "big hit" is ruining hockey. We are letting guys take out the opposing players by letting them skate as fast as the can and bodycheck them into a 6 month concussion, instead of using skill to pass/skate around them.

Take the Neil on Boychuk from a couple of days ago. Clean hit, Boychuk had the puck, Neil hit him square in the chest. But what did it accomplish? Did his team get the puck back? Was his team in a better position to score? No. All it did was send some guy to a dark room for the next month. What is the value in that? The crowd gets a thrill out of it and 99000 people get to watch it on youtube, great. But is that thrill worth risking Boychuk's health like that? Is worth him having potentially lifelong brain injuries (ask Keith Primeau) for the sake of us getting a barbaric charge of seeing someone get rocked? It's mf 2012, not Ancient Rome.

Rule changes the fans must pressure hockey to do, as they refuse to make changes that might hurt their bottom line$:

Rule 1. If you are making contact with a player (bodycheck) without attempting to make a play for the the puck before or after the contact, then that is an interference penalty. Penalty ranging 2 minutes to Suspension, depending on the severity of the hit.

Rule 2. Contact to the head should be called like highsticking. Accidental or not, if the major point of contact is the head, then it's 5 minutes +. End of story.

Sorry I went on rant here but I am so pissed about this. We need to make the NHL take a page of the NFL rule book, protect the players so we can enjoy a game full of skill. Gooning takes skill out of the game. I would pay to watch Letang play, not Nystrom. I don't pay to see people get carried off the ice in stretchers. That is all.

Dude... those are beer league rules. In the NHL you play the puck OR the man. That doesn't need to change. It's the speed, agression and respect that needs to be adjusted. You can still play the man, but play him to knock him off the puck NOT knock him out of the game. That should be an Intent to injure penalty if your intention is not to get the puck.

What pisses me off is the zero attempt to play the puck after the hit. A hockey hit is designed to knock a player off the puck and steal the puck in order to pass it. These guys now just launch their body at a player and both end up on the ice and there is zero care as to who ends up with the puck so what is the point of the hit????

EDIT: I'm talking about rule 1 BTW... sorry don't mean to isolate you, just pointing out that the rules are already there to enforce this.

[letangerang58]

Rule 1. If you are making contact with a player (bodycheck) without attempting to make a play for the the puck before or after the contact, then that is an interference penalty. Penalty ranging 2 minutes to Suspension, depending on the severity of the hit.

Rule 2. Contact to the head should be called like highsticking. Accidental or not, if the major point of contact is the head, then it's 5 minutes +. End of story.

I disagree with rule 1. That would be taking hitting out of hockey but I agree that all headshots should be 5 minute majors. Only way to take these hits out of the game is to show the players that there are serious reprecussions for making these hits. Right now there aren't any reprecussions for hits. 1 to 3 game suspensions do nothing. That's a vacation not a suspension. Give them 5+ and you will see guys change their ways. Just look at Matt Cooke. His absence for 17 games could have made the difference between his team winning the first round, instead he missed and they lost and now he only has
26 PIMs this season and doesn't make reckless hits anymore.

[wendelclark17]

man I really keep hoping that someone actually has an update on his injury ......

Its sounding like no suspension from NHL - im not going to get into whether I agree or not as almost every point has been made ad nauseum already.

Mike Heika ‏ @MikeHeika
I'm hearing there will be no discipline to Eric Nystrom. It's tricky, because NHL will not announce that, they will just say nothing.

14m Mark Stepneski ‏ @andrewsdsp
Hearing that the league will not discipline Eric Nystrom for the hit on Pittsburgh's Kris Letang last night.

[old clonker]

Update from the Pittsburgh Gazette. Letang is day-to-day.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12061/1213713-61.stm