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Thread: HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    lanky522 wrote:
    87Flyer wrote:
    LMAO, hmmm overpaid players, lets see....Federov, Aucoin, Lang, R.Blake, Horcoff, K.Johnsson, Jovanovski, Naslund, W.Mitchell and on and on and on. They\'re everywhere. They get their money then disappear.
    I disagree with you on Mitchell and Lang. Mitchell is arguably one of the best shut down defenders in the game
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    87Flyer wrote:
    Makes me wonder about this collusion thing. If another team tells Poile we have interest then he goes and tells Homer, hey you better hurry up cause another team is coming for the same thing doesn\'t that kind of defeat the purpose of waiting till July 1st. I guess he could\'ve just said, there might be interest from another team but dam, you trade for a guy(or 2 in this matter) then have him signed in record time. No checking the team out or the city or anything just woohoo i\'m gonna get paid more than i\'m worth so sign me up. Sure makes you wonder if there wasn\'t some behind the scenes stuff. Guess it all depends when the deal was done. If it was done 1st thing this morning i guess it would be enough time, still pretty dam quick tho.
    Did you ever see the draft video from last summer?

    The GM and president of the Washington Caps were trying to pull some trade day magic... They knew they wanted backstrom, but they offered the Bruins (who had the pick immediately behind them) their 4th overall pick for the bruins\' 5th overall and 30some overall if they wanted to move up. But once the bruins said they wanted to do it so they could take \"the swede,\" the caps backed out of the deal saying that the president was too undecided. If the bruins had said that they wanted to move up to take kessel, then the caps would\'ve traded picks, gotten the extra pick in the second round (if I remember correctly) AND the player they wanted.

    You wonder how much sneaky stuff goes on behind the scenes... I wouldn\'t be surprised whatsoever if nashville pushed phili to make this deal with the imaginary time crunch. There\'s no regulations or committees that oversee trade talks for fairness.
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    lanky522 wrote:
    Ok RepentTokyo,

    The following are all UFAs this summer:

    Tony Amonte
    Jeff Friesen
    Pierre Turgeon
    Tyler Arnason
    Petr Sykora
    Petr Nedved
    Todd White
    Wes Walz
    Jan Bulis
    Trevor Linden
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    Ladislav Nagy
    Jeremy Roenick
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    Michal Handzus
    Jeff Hamilton
    Todd Bertuzzi
    Robert Lang
    Kyle Calder
    Paul Kariya
    Peter Forsberg
    Danny Briere
    Chris Drury
    Dainius Zubrus
    Mike Comrie
    Michael Peca
    Jeff O\'Neill
    Scott Gomez
    Jason Blake
    Ryan Smyth
    Victor Kozlov
    Richard Zednik
    Randy Robitaille
    Brendan Shanahan
    Mike York
    Nils Ekman
    Gary Roberts
    Mark Recchi
    Slava Kozlov
    Keith Tkachuk
    Eric Belanger
    Scott Walker
    Anson Carter
    Josef Vasicek
    Jozef Stumpel
    Martin Gelinas

    Of these guys, I doubt that any of them (with the exception of Shanahan, Blake, Smyth, Gomez, Comrie, Drury, Briere, Kariya, Nagy, and Selanne) would go for more than 4 million a season. Granted some of them aren\'t as good to have as Hartnell (some are older or not as good), but there are PLENTY of other good options there that you could get for less than 4 million to play on the second line. You could proabably even get 2 or 3 of these guys for 4 million dollars.

    They could definitely get Stumpel, Walker, Belanger, Ekman, Roberts, Recchi, Bertuzzi, Lang, Guerin, Stefan, Lindros, Arnason, Turgeon and Amonte for less than 4 million and all of these guys (dispite some being older) could contribute just as well or better than Hartnell until the younger guys are ready to go.
    Arnason would be a much cheaper young high risk, high reward, high potential substitute for Hartnell.

    I would\'ve imagined that Jason Blake would go for around the 4.2 million that Hartnell went for, but now I\'m sure that he\'ll go for closer to 5.5 million. Even so, I think they would\'ve been better off with Blake at 5+ million over 3 or 4 years than they are with Hartnell at 4.2 million for 6.<br><br>Post edited by: lanky522, at: 2007/06/18 19:58
    I think you will see a few of these guy\'s agents will use Hartnells salary in their arguments for their clients....I also figured Blake at 3.8- 4.1...but with Hartnel hitting the jackpot like that, it\'s going to be 5 mil for Blake and others.... yeah, Philly could have got a couple 2nd liners at least for what they gave Hartnell....can you imagine now what Souray will ask for???

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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    lanky522 wrote:
    As for star power, I did consider selanne, pronger, and niedermayer stars at the beginning of the past season. Carolina is a bit different, but they still had Stillman, who won a cup with tampa bay, and brind\'amour as stars at the beginning of the year. Granted they didn\'t have name brand defenders or goalies, but they did have stars.
    edit: just not worth it.

    Post edited by: repenttokyo, at: 2007/06/18 23:23

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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    I was hoping San Jose would get Timmonen. He\'d really help out Carle, Vlasic and Ehrhoff. Another chance missed.
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    In other news, Sheldon Souray and his agent are out celebrating tonight.
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    Yeah. Probably thinking 6.0 is the very least they\'ll settle for.
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    Repenttokyo wrote:
    edit: just not worth it.
    Please repent, tell me; who on phili is a star? How many players on phili have EVER scored 80 or more points in a season? Tell me. If you can, then I\'ll say that you\'re right.

    Come on prove me wrong. Stillman has had 80. Brindy\'s had 80+ 4 times in his career. Talk bad about these guys if you want, but they\'ve proven themselves wayyyy more than anyone on phili has.

    And please don\'t say Gagne... He isn\'t a star... he\'s the only one to come close to 80 points, but he can\'t do anything without peter forsberg. Without forsberg, he averaged what 55-60 points a season? That\'s a star? I don\'t think so. Maybe in 2 or 3 years he could (note I say could, not will) be a star, but I don\'t know if that\'s even really in the cards.

    I\'m not saying that phili won\'t be better next year - they will be much better. I\'m just saying that they won\'t win a cup with the team that they are creating. They probably won\'t even come close.

    You show me a championship team from anytime in the past decade or two, and I\'ll show you a star that got them a cup.

    Post edited by: lanky522, at: 2007/06/19 08:47
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    Lockledge wrote:
    Yeah. Probably thinking 6.0 is the very least they\'ll settle for.
    No way... they won\'t settle for any less than 7 million. With the cap increasing and the max salary increasing, they\'ll get it too. He\'s not worth it, but he\'ll get it.

    Post edited by: lanky522, at: 2007/06/19 08:44
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    $6 million is it, Lanky! They won\'t be going for $7 - no way. Not unless they have easy access to crack.

    Gagne is a star, Stillman is not a star. Carter will break out this year or next, so he could damn well be a star by Christmas. Biron will be a star this year. The Flyers will make the playoffs this year, and with all their great kids coming - and they are a top 5 team for prospects - they will be a Cup contender within three years. Which is exactly the reason why I dislike the term of the contracts. Six years just might tie their hands too much down the road.
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    lanky522 wrote:
    Repenttokyo wrote:
    edit: just not worth it.
    Please repent, tell me; who on phili is a star? How many players on phili have EVER scored 80 or more points in a season? Tell me. If you can, then I\'ll say that you\'re right.

    Come on prove me wrong. Stillman has had 80. Brindy\'s had 80+ 4 times in his career. Talk bad about these guys if you want, but they\'ve proven themselves wayyyy more than anyone on phili has.


    You show me a championship team from anytime in the past decade or two, and I\'ll show you a star that got them a cup.<br><br>Post edited by: lanky522, at: 2007/06/19 08:47
    you know, the last time brindy had 80 points, before his cup year, was 1997. I wasn\'t going to continue this conversation. When someone just repeats their opinion over and over, it\'s no longer a discussion. Some people have opinions that happen to be different than your own.

    I am a Carolina / Hartford fan, but it wasn\'t any one player who got them that cup, it was a total team effort.

    Post edited by: repenttokyo, at: 2007/06/19 09:21

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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    Dobber wrote:
    $6 million is it, Lanky! They won\'t be going for $7 - no way. Not unless they have easy access to crack.
    With Timonen getting a six year 6+ million dollar contract, Souray can EASILY get a 7+ million contract for 3-4 years. Souray whooped Timonen\'s but last year in goals and is a better powerplay quarterback than Timonen.

    Gagne is a star, Stillman is not a star. Carter will break out this year or next, so he could damn well be a star by Christmas. Biron will be a star this year. The Flyers will make the playoffs this year, and with all their great kids coming - and they are a top 5 team for prospects - they will be a Cup contender within three years. Which is exactly the reason why I dislike the term of the contracts. Six years just might tie their hands too much down the road.
    It\'s interesting that people consider Gagne a star when people who are supposedly not stars (stillman) have higher single season bests than Gagne their careers. If Gagne is a star, shouldn\'t he be able to out preform \"non-stars?\" Anyways, Stillman was on a stanley cup winning team two years running, and scored 156 points during that span... that sounds pretty significant to me... was this just blind luck on his part?

    Anyways... I\'m not debating that Phili will be good, I just think (like I said in an earlier post), that they will revert to their 1990\'s form (when they were good enough to win and make the playoffs, but would lose soon after.
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    Repenttokyo wrote:
    you know, the last time brindy had 80 points, before his cup year, was 1997. I wasn\'t going to continue this conversation. When someone just repeats their opinion over and over, it\'s no longer a discussion. Some people have opinions that happen to be different than your own.

    I am a Carolina / Hartford fan, but it wasn\'t any one player who got them that cup, it was a total team effort.
    It was more of a team effort than some cup runs have been, but you cannot really say that brindy isn\'t a star. Even without considering his points, he\'s consistantly been one of the best defensive forwards in the game, THE ABSOLUTE BEST faceoff taker for YEARS, and the one of the premier leaders. He\'d be a star in my books for his faceoff ability alone.

    You are correct though, repent, I have spoken on this issue WWAAAYY more than I should\'ve. The thread is a monster that should subside to make way for other issues...

    I\'ll agree to disagree.
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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    lanky522 wrote:
    Dobber wrote:
    $6 million is it, Lanky! They won\'t be going for $7 - no way. Not unless they have easy access to crack.
    With Timonen getting a six year 6+ million dollar contract, Souray can EASILY get a 7+ million contract for 3-4 years. Souray whooped Timonen\'s but last year in goals and is a better powerplay quarterback than Timonen.

    Gagne is a star, Stillman is not a star. Carter will break out this year or next, so he could damn well be a star by Christmas. Biron will be a star this year. The Flyers will make the playoffs this year, and with all their great kids coming - and they are a top 5 team for prospects - they will be a Cup contender within three years. Which is exactly the reason why I dislike the term of the contracts. Six years just might tie their hands too much down the road.
    It\'s interesting that people consider Gagne a star when people who are supposedly not stars (stillman) have higher single season bests than Gagne their careers. If Gagne is a star, shouldn\'t he be able to out preform \"non-stars?\" Anyways, Stillman was on a stanley cup winning team two years running, and scored 156 points during that span... that sounds pretty significant to me... was this just blind luck on his part?

    Anyways... I\'m not debating that Phili will be good, I just think (like I said in an earlier post), that they will revert to their 1990\'s form (when they were good enough to win and make the playoffs, but would lose soon after.
    Why are you equating points to star status? Star status is playing under pressure & not wilting. It\'s stepping up at crunch time. Something Gagne has to do in Philly. Stillman has won 2 Cups as a supporting member. He has never been in the spotlight. He is the guy that lurks in the star\'s shadows & places his best as a supporting cast member. Look at it this way, would you nominate him for an Oscar as best supporting actor or for best actor on his team. Exactly, Best supporting actor. In TB - Richards, Lecavalier, St.Louis. In CAR - Ward, Brind\'Amour & Staal. Stillman is 2nd fiddle but every team needs one.

    I wouldn\'t call Brind\'Amour a star either. He is a GREAT player but is more of a team leader than a star. There is a difference. Some stars are or are growing to be team leaders - Sakic, Crosby. While other players are just stars & wow us with their talent (Ovechkin). Some players are stars that as they get older lose that star ability but their leadership ability more than compensate for the slip in that \"star\" talent - Messier & Yzerman in their twilight are prime examples. IMO Brind\'Amour is more a leader than star. He is a guy I want on my team as he makes the WHOLE team better. That is what a leader does.

    As for Souray or Timonen. Give me Timonen. He is a more complete player. No way Souray gets $7M+. Would you play a shootout specialist top dollar? No, you would pay more for the complete player who can play in ALL situations (PP, Even, SH).

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    Default Re:HUGE NEWS OUT OF PHILLY

    Yes, points don\'t equal star status. Other things, like jersey sales, or who makes Team Canada, etc make a star.


    No way Souray gets that. He wasn\'t team captain and he doesn\'t bring the defensive aspect that Timonen does. He is also a bandaid boy.
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