Carlson vs Leddy

[fungchen3]

Same hype? No. But to say Carlson's hype of
Washington is crazy IMO. His numbers and history paint this kid as a stud, not
His team

Ry,

2009-10:

John Carlson: 82GP = 37Pts.

vs.

Kevin Shattenkirk = 72GP = 43Pts.
Cam Fowler: 76GP = 40Pts.

The point I'm trying to make is that here are two kids that didn't have nearly the same fantasy hype heading into last season and look how it turned out. The bottom line is, opportunity and some early success could be the difference between 28 points and 40 points for a young defenseman. Nick Leddy is a very highly-regarded young defenseman and this is being overlooked. When he was drafted, he wasn't as mature as his peers from a development standpoint (he was still in high school) - it was his raw skill, great skating and tremendous upside that had scouts gushing...so comparing him then to now is not the correct thing to do.

And to be clear, I'm NOT saying that Leddy WILL be better than Carlson long-term or that I wouldn't trade Leddy for Carlson in a keeper league - all I'm saying is that for "this year only" I would roll with Leddy and long-term it's still up in the air until we see more of them at this level.

[ridinryan44]

1) Yes he has better junior numbers. You know who else had amazing junior numbers? Alexandre Daigle. Here's a question for you... what's more important... junior numbers or REAL NHL numbers?

2) Based on what? I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. Based on the fact that he's played one more year? How do you define a "better career"? Weak.

3) Who cares if he's a "big game player"? What does that have to do with anything? Do you play in a league that awards fantasy points for being a "big game player"? What does that even mean? Weak.

4) Let's see, how bout the fact that after a quarter of the way through the season - Leddy's 6th in the league in d-man scoring in only his rookie year and Carlson is... one sec I gotta scroll to the next page here... 45th, in his second year.

In a one year I think the answer is clear.

In a keeper, who knows? It's too early to really say, but if I had to choose today, I'd say Leddy. I agree with almost all of Fung Chen's points... Carlson is a better all-round defenseman. That's his game. He doesn't need to be the offensive guy because they have other guys who can do that better than him, and better guys suited for that role emerging.

Carlson may be (probably is) the better overall defenseman, but who cares? I find a lot of people on this forum have a hard time separating the concepts of fantasy performance and real world performance. I just think some of you guys went way overboard with some very strong, extreme statements based on a comparison for which there is very little body of evidence to draw any strong conclusions.

Lol. All you're arguments at good man. But the NHL career thing? Yea, I'd base a guy who has 6 months on having a better NHL career over a guy who has zero. Yea. Time played has a role. If Carlson had been brutal so far I his NHL career and Leddy was doing what he's doing, I'd say Leddy is better so far. Wouldn't that be the norm?

[ridinryan44]

Ry,

2009-10:

John Carlson: 82GP = 37Pts.

vs.

Kevin Shattenkirk = 72GP = 43Pts.
Cam Fowler: 76GP = 40Pts.

The point I'm trying to make is that here are two kids that didn't have nearly the same fantasy hype heading into last season and look how it turned out. The bottom line is, opportunity and some early success could be the difference between 28 points and 40 points for a young defenseman. Nick Leddy is a very highly-regarded young defenseman and this is being overlooked. When he was drafted, he wasn't as mature as his peers from a development standpoint (he was still in high school) - it was his raw skill, great skating and tremendous upside that had scouts gushing...so comparing him then to now is not the correct thing to do.

And to be clear, I'm NOT saying that Leddy WILL be better than Carlson long-term or that I wouldn't trade Leddy for Carlson in a keeper league - all I'm saying is that for "this year only" I would roll with Leddy and long-term it's still up in the air until we see more of them at this level.

Fungxhem. This post is incredibly accurate and I wouldn't disagree with anything. I would take shattenkirk over Carlson based on situation well. Maybe I need to concede that Leddy is the better one year pick, though I think they'll have pretty similar numbers at the end. Leddy over Carlson. Ok. Hey, I'll give up on this one, but I just haven't seen Leddy in a single
Fantasy conversation until the last two weeks. - now he's better than Carlson? Yea, ghe could be, but ill be one if the guys who says **** no

[fungchen3]

Fungxhem. This post is incredibly accurate and I wouldn't disagree with anything. I would take shattenkirk over Carlson based on situation well. Maybe I need to concede that Leddy is the better one year pick, though I think they'll have pretty similar numbers at the end. Leddy over Carlson. Ok. Hey, I'll give up on this one, but I just haven't seen Leddy in a single
Fantasy conversation until the last two weeks. - now he's better than Carlson? Yea, ghe could be, but ill be one if the guys who says **** no

Ryan,

You don't need to concede anything buddy. Your opinion is valid and you're certainly entitled to it, even though I might not agree on this season. But it doesn't mean I will be right - it's just my opinion.

Also, to your point, I understand the feeling of: "where did this guy come from and how could he possibly be better than a player we've been banking on for a while now?" ... but it happens. Look at Dmitry Kulikov - same thing. He was drafted because of his tremendous upside but his value was starting to dip a lot in fantasy circles because he was on Florida and took longer to get going. Now he's finally finding his groove and looks poised to be a solid contributor.

And for the record - if I owned Leddy and could trade him for Carlson in a keeper right now, I'd probably do it rather quickly. But in a 1-year league for all the marbles, no way.

[migbas]

Bump....

What's the answer now???

[fungchen3]

Bump....

What's the answer now???

Well in all fairness the landscape is quite different with Hunter replacing Boudreau. The way BB used Carlson was very discouraging but you can tell Hunter has a lot of confidence in Carlson from his days with the Knights. Carlson generated 3 assists tonight and was all over the place - haven't seen him play like that in a long time under Boudreau. If this is a sign of good things to come, Carlson will get a huge bump.

[Sportfreunde]

I dunno who has more offensive talent but I will say this....Carlson is a potential no1 dman (and can play that role right now tbh, better than Green at least) and Leddy is a no2 dman who can fill in as a no1.

So maybe Leddy will get you 10 extra pts in a season but Carlson is gonna play more minutes and do it reliably. Maybe better peripheral stats. I'd definitely be going with Carlson if I was an NHL GM...as a fantasy GM looking for offense though it gets weird.

[Dean Youngblood]

Well in all fairness the landscape is quite different with Hunter replacing Boudreau. The way BB used Carlson was very discouraging but you can tell Hunter has a lot of confidence in Carlson from his days with the Knights. Carlson generated 3 assists tonight and was all over the place - haven't seen him play like that in a long time under Boudreau. If this is a sign of good things to come, Carlson will get a huge bump.

Meh, coaching change or not, I recommended Carlson based on his upside and abilities. The OP posted this in the keeper league forum so you choose the player with the higher upside and that was always Carlson. Sure, Hunter likes Carlson and might have accelerated Carlson's production but the question was always from a keeper perspective and the answer should've reflected that.

Hopefully he went with Carlson

[DuklaNation]

With the Caps down 3-0, Carlson went from shutdown role to offensive d-man he was prior to entering the NHL. You saw the results, 3 assists 8 shots. Hunter must have turned him loose finally. Let someone else play against the top lines with Alzner. 16 pts this season without top PP time. Leddy? Gimme a break. That guy is leeching off the other guys in CHI. He's not bad but doesnt have Carlson's all around talents.

[fungchen3]

With the Caps down 3-0, Carlson went from shutdown role to offensive d-man he was prior to entering the NHL. You saw the results, 3 assists 8 shots. Hunter must have turned him loose finally.

It was pretty scary...he was all over the place. If that's a sign of things to come I will be a happy GM.

[fungchen3]

Meh, coaching change or not, I recommended Carlson based on his upside and abilities. The OP posted this in the keeper league forum so you choose the player with the higher upside and that was always Carlson. Sure, Hunter likes Carlson and might have accelerated Carlson's production but the question was always from a keeper perspective and the answer should've reflected that.

Hopefully he went with Carlson

Keeper-wise, I think Carlson was always the majority consensus here. But the OP was specifically discussing "this year only" and that's when it started to sway over to Leddy a bit. Overall though your point is taken. But tonight Carlson looked A LOT different than he did under BB pretty much since day 1.

[Brady19]

With the Caps down 3-0, Carlson went from shutdown role to offensive d-man he was prior to entering the NHL. You saw the results, 3 assists 8 shots. Hunter must have turned him loose finally. Let someone else play against the top lines with Alzner. 16 pts this season without top PP time.

According to Yahoo Carlson also took a faceoff tonight. Talk about a future multi-cat stud.

[jeamcasmith99]

Is this thread a joke?

Leddy can't hold Carlson's jock strap, whether it's this year or long-term.

[blayze]

It's funny how fickle people are because of one big game.

Can't wait till the next time some douchebag revives this thread again when Leddy has a big game or when circumstances change for one of these players.

[Front89]

Leddy "leaching" off his CHI teammates? lol....classic

People need to realize that team, organization, scheme and opportunity play a big part in a player's success or failure in hockey just like they do in any team sport.

Chicago is a very stable and high quality organization with a very good coach, a great assortment of young/older talent and a structured system of play...for Leddy (or any young D) this is a great environment to develop his skills, learn from vets like Keith/Seabrook and get acclimated to the NHL game...the team fits well together and each player knows their role.

Washington is a different situation...they have a good organization overall, but have been operating under different systems for several years running, have some character/leadership issues in their locker room, just switched coaches etc. For a young D like Carlson that can be disruptive to development and can make adjusting to the NHL, not to mention your teammates and coaches, tougher...

I have no idea who will be better short or long term, but their situations are alot different and that does matter. Hopefully Hunter will get the Caps back on track, they can decide on a system they want to play and management can focus on bringing in talent to work therein and jettison some of the bad apples who do not seem to want to work hard and pay the price of success....