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Thread: Carlson vs Leddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Youngblood View Post
    Wow. Another weird statement. John Carlson is one of the best two-way young defensemen in the ENTIRE NHL. The Caps rely heavily on him and Alzner. I'm not sure where you are getting your information on Carlson. He may be limited (offensively) this season but he's their best defensemen they have and is all but gauranteed to be a top pairing D.

    Leddy is no slouche either but he's benefiting from Chicago's lack of depth and the Seabrook injury. He has impressed in his absence but his TOI is inflated at the moment. Leddy's competition includes the likes of Hjalmarsson, Montador, and Lepisto at the moment. Leddy is proving that he's legit (and is probably better this year in one-year leagues) but Carlson is the better long term (Keeper) option here and I don't think it's very close.
    His TOI has been the same almost all year when everyone was in the line up and when Keith or Seabrook were out. None of the guy's you have stated on Chicago have any chance of effecting Leddy's time what so ever. Which was evident after he had his worst game of the season (-3) a couple weeks ago and returned the next game and played some were over 22min. I would be very confident in saying without even looking it up that none of them have received more PP time in any game this year then him. I would say that Carlson is in more danger of losing PP time if Green ever returns, as he was already playing behind Green and Wideman on the PP early this season and then there is the matter of the very skilled Orlov on the way later this year or next. That is all I will say on the matter as I might disagree with you, but I very much respect your opinion....
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    Couldn't have said it better. Go look at history and stats. Leddy is great, don't get me wrong, but Carlson has always been superior. I understand being excited about a player, I'm excited about Leddy too, but I think you've turned that exciting level up to an 8 when it should be a 5
    It has nothing to do with me be excited about him I traded him yesterday. It is just what I believe. I think Carlson is over rated and Leddy under rated.. Just my opinion though...

    For that matter I hope he never scores another goal as I didn't really want to move him, but was forced. Also I hate Chicago and Ovie is my favorite player. So here's hoping I'm wrong....
    Last edited by bigbabybuda; November 19, 2011 at 6:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    It has nothing to do with me be excited about him I traded him yesterday. It is just what I believe. I think Carlson is over rated and Leddy under rated.. Just my opinion though...

    For that matter I hope he never scores another goal as I didn't really want to move him, but was forced. Also I hate Chicago and Ovie is my favorite player. So here's hoping I'm wrong....
    Fair enough, but why do you believe this? What makes you think Leddy is better, other than gut feeling?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    Fair enough, but why do you believe this? What makes you think Leddy is better, other than gut feeling?
    From watching them play I think Leddy is a much better skater and has better vision on the ice. He is a little on the small size and could stand gaining a few pounds, but as you must well know he is by no means timed and doesn't mind throwing his body around. I also think he is better in his own end. Carlson I think is stronger and posses a better shot. That's what I think I have seen Leddy play probably about 10-15 times play only on TV and have seen Carlson play probably 5 times in person when he played for London and tones on TV as I tend to watch a lot of Caps games. Just for Ovie though don't like the Cap's. Again it is just my opinion hell it's probably wrong....
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    From watching them play I think Leddy is a much better skater and has better vision on the ice. He is a little on the small size and could stand gaining a few pounds, but as you must well know he is by no means timed and doesn't mind throwing his body around. I also think he is better in his own end. Carlson I think is stronger and posses a better shot. That's what I think I have seen Leddy play probably about 10-15 times play only on TV and have seen Carlson play probably 5 times in person when he played for London and tones on TV as I tend to watch a lot of Caps games. Just for Ovie though don't like the Cap's. Again it is just my opinion hell it's probably wrong....
    All I can recommend is watching Carlson play more before you call Leddy better. Carlson is one of the better NHL defenders at a very young age.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    His TOI has been the same almost all year when everyone was in the line up and when Keith or Seabrook were out. None of the guy's you have stated on Chicago have any chance of effecting Leddy's time what so ever. Which was evident after he had his worst game of the season (-3) a couple weeks ago and returned the next game and played some were over 22min. I would be very confident in saying without even looking it up that none of them have received more PP time in any game this year then him. I would say that Carlson is in more danger of losing PP time if Green ever returns, as he was already playing behind Green and Wideman on the PP early this season and then there is the matter of the very skilled Orlov on the way later this year or next. That is all I will say on the matter as I might disagree with you, but I very much respect your opinion....
    That was my point. Leddy is thriving now because he has ZERO competition (Keith is #1, Leddy is #2 for PP time).

    Carlson's offensive production will only go up when Green is shipped out (and I believe he will be). Wideman is not the Capital's long term solution. Orlov is a good prospect and he'll certainly get his share of PP time when he arrives but I don't see the two of them "competing" for PP time. Orlov and Carlson will likely man the PP1 by the time Orlov is ready for big minutes as they would have a righty and a lefty giving them lots of options.

    Again, I think Leddy is a great option (especially for the short term) as I don't expect Carlson to post big numbers this season at all but if we are talking about Carlson then the best longterm investment would be with JC. He's the one with the better all-around game and it's becoming clear that the Capitals are starting to build around him back there. Their current "system" is better suited for Carlson than Green at this point.

    Both are great talents but there's no way that I would deal Carlson for Leddy straight up

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    Well I guess time will tell. I'll remind you at the end of next year. I as well don't think the'll resign Green. For the record by a few games I've seen him play, I meant 5 live and some were around 50 on TV
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    Carlson > leddy. No question. Shouldn't even be a thread
    21 replies later and I beg to differ. Thanks for the feedback everyone. I don't see anyone making an argument for Carlson over Leddy in a one year so I'll pull the trigger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecanuck View Post
    21 replies later and I beg to differ. Thanks for the feedback everyone. I don't see anyone making an argument for Carlson over Leddy in a one year so I'll pull the trigger.
    Carlson and Leddy are 6 to 1, half a dozen to the other in a one year. Long term, I'll tell ya this. Carlson is Pronger (without the pim) while Leddy is Timmonen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    Carlson and Leddy are 6 to 1, half a dozen to the other in a one year. Long term, I'll tell ya this. Carlson is Pronger (without the pim) while Leddy is Timmonen.
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    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    Carlson and Leddy are 6 to 1, half a dozen to the other in a one year.
    How in the world do you figure that? Leddy is 6th in D scoring right now with 15 points and Carlson is tied for 36th with 8 points. Leddy has Carlson's points practically doubled. In a one-year league, Leddy is the CLEAR choice, and an argument could EASILY be made that in a points-only keeper, these guys are splitting hairs. Let's not forget Nick Leddy was drafted straight out of high school and has a tremendous upside just like Carlson.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
    How in the world do you figure that? Leddy is 6th in D scoring right now with 15 points and Carlson is tied for 36th with 8 points. Leddy has Carlson's points practically doubled. In a one-year league, Leddy is the CLEAR choice, and an argument could EASILY be made that in a points-only keeper, these guys are splitting hairs. Let's not forget Nick Leddy was drafted straight out of high school and has a tremendous upside just like Carlson.
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    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
    How in the world do you figure that? Leddy is 6th in D scoring right now with 15 points and Carlson is tied for 36th with 8 points. Leddy has Carlson's points practically doubled. In a one-year league, Leddy is the CLEAR choice, and an argument could EASILY be made that in a points-only keeper, these guys are splitting hairs. Let's not forget Nick Leddy was drafted straight out of high school and has a tremendous upside just like Carlson.
    Really? So because Visnovsky has such a brutal start and BergerOn has looked like a stud do you trade Luby for Marc? This blows my mind. Leddy has exceeded his perceived vie in fantasy leagues in the last three weeks. Fact. Carlson has simply "done what's expected" and has posted 37 points in his rookie year with EXTREMELY limited PP time, and all of a sudden Leddy is better than Carlson?!?!? I'm not arguing against Leddy, I think the guy is gonna be great, but to say he's better than Carlson (and because he's better earlier!?!? (come ON!). It's gotta be realized that I'm not arguing against Leddy here... All I'm saying is that I don't understand how Carlson did LAST YEAR what Leddy is THIS YEAR and you aren't recognizing that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
    How in the world do you figure that? Leddy is 6th in D scoring right now with 15 points and Carlson is tied for 36th with 8 points. Leddy has Carlson's points practically doubled. In a one-year league, Leddy is the CLEAR choice, and an argument could EASILY be made that in a points-only keeper, these guys are splitting hairs. Let's not forget Nick Leddy was drafted straight out of high school and has a tremendous upside just like Carlson.
    Fung, you know I always love what you say, but your argument suggests that Kessel will lead the league in scoring. I'll put money (or rep or bragging rights or whatever it takes) and say that Carlson has more points at the end of the season than Leddy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    Fung, you know I always love what you say, but your argument suggests that Kessel will lead the league in scoring. I'll put money (or rep or bragging rights or whatever it takes) and say that Carlson has more points at the end of the season than Leddy.
    I didn't say anything of the sort. I said that in a 1-year points only league, there is no basis for choosing Carlson over Leddy this year, none.

    I never said Kessel will lead the league in scoring...and I never said Leddy will lead D-Men in scoring either...but WHAT has John Carlson accomplished in his illustrious career that make Leddy outperforming him this year such a stretch?

    Carlson is NOT Visnovsky or Letang or Yandle, Green or Doughty. In fact, Carlson is a far better defenseman in real life then he is in fantasy. Leddy and Carlson were both highly regarded players in their respective draft years and both have tremendous upside. Carlson has a better shot and is physically stronger and more polished in his own end, but Leddy is the better skater and smoother puckmover.

    Carlson was drafted 26th and Leddy 19th a year later - point being, they are very comparable players in terms of upside, but Carlson's hype has been ridiculously overblown because he plays for the Caps (which isn't exactly a fantasy bonus right now).

    I'll tell you what, I'd be willing to make a bet with you right now, re: Carlson vs. Leddy...

    I bet you Leddy ends up with more Points-per-Game than Carlson this season. And I'm using PPG so that potential games lost to injury do not sway the totals at all. Loser of the bet buys the other guy the Dobber prospect/fantasy Guide pack next year. Deal?
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