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Thread: The Ins and Outs of Dobber Hockey - Understanding the Forum

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    Right-o Shoeless and Sentium, some of the very best threads I've ever read are those where there is significant difference of opinion regarding the topic of the thread (e.g., trade or keeper decision analysis).

    By the same token, it's annoying when there is a thread that has such a difference of opinion and you don't get many people posting. I would encourage everyone to seek out those threads and to give their two cents, often it will involve a very important keeper decision (often a newbie poster, or close to it, seeking advice) and the more input, the better. There was one example recently where I responded to a thread regarding a trade analysis, which involved Sharp and Carter, and I fundamentally disagreed with the majority of the posters' analysis of whether the guy should do the trade, yet not many members responded to my plea to get further input. It was during the summer so that, I'm sure, was part of the reason, not as many of the members posting during the dog days...

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    I would also add that, speaking for myself, I have been trying to add more context to my answers. No, every answer is not some Bayesian data analysis, but I do try and avoid the "Oh Player-X, w/out a doubt!" type answers. I just don't feel those type of answers benefit anyone - with few exception.

    If my answer is indeed a gut feeling, I say as much. Otherwise, I try to support my answer by outlining key bits of info, e.g. "I believe Player-X to be the better choice for a contending team in need of help now." or "Original Cheeze-Its are superior to lame-ass Cheese-Nips."

    The duration of my answer is directly proportional to my buzz....errrr...amount of time I have which to answer.
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    One other topic that might be worth addressing is "homerism".

    Now it goes without saying that all of us have a soft spot for either our home/favorite NHL team and its players, as well as for the NHL players on our fantasy squads, but it's critical that, when providing analysis (trades, keeper decisions, roster moves, performance forecasts, etc.) that you completely set aside that homerist tendency as much as possible. I am not saying that you shouldn't post about players you like, or players from your favorite NHL team - often, you will have very valuable information to share regarding these players - BUT, and here is the KEY issue, you should try to avoid at all costs OVERVALUING these players based on your favoritism, that to me is the crux of the matter.

    In that regard, I'd like to point out a very important distinction though, which has been quite relevant in my case.

    I have often, in the past, posted analyses and thoughts about players that I own, especially regarding their prospects for the future. An example is Letang, whom I've written about extensively, especially during the years when he was not yet producing up to the expectations. More recently, Hiller, in that thread regarding where he stands in terms of top 10, 15, 20, etc.

    There is a reason why I am posting regarding these guys, and it's not because I own them, but rather because of the fact that I FOLLOW THEM MORE CLOSELY as a result of owning them. For this reason, I often will have much more valuable information to share with all of you regarding these players versus other players I don't follow as much. Sometimes, I think this may come off to some as homerism ((i.e., there goes so-and-so again blabbing about how great that player he owns is), but it really isn't, it is more a tendency to provide information regarding players of whom you have the most knowledge, and if anything that is quite the opposite of homerism. Again, the golden rule is to avoid OVERVALUING when you do this.

    In the end, the only way to answer fantasy-related questions about a player is to look at the cold, hard facts, and ignore all biases. Look at the statistics, the player's past performances, his NHL situation and the way a player is being used by the team, the strength and character of his NHL team (weak; offense-inclined; defense-first; etc.), those are the details that lead to solid, helpful analyses, which is the bread and butter of this great forum.

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    Yeah ross has a very good point. I go out of my way, in the interest of full disclosure, to assert my obvious man-crush on Myers before attempting to answer any inquiry re d-man rankings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross10019 View Post
    One other topic that might be worth addressing is "homerism".

    Now it goes without saying that all of us have a soft spot for either our home/favorite NHL team and its players, as well as for the NHL players on our fantasy squads, but it's critical that, when providing analysis (trades, keeper decisions, roster moves, performance forecasts, etc.) that you completely set aside that homerist tendency as much as possible. I am not saying that you shouldn't post about players you like, or players from your favorite NHL team - often, you will have very valuable information to share regarding these players - BUT, and here is the KEY issue, you should try to avoid at all costs OVERVALUING these players based on your favoritism, that to me is the crux of the matter.

    In that regard, I'd like to point out a very important distinction though, which has been quite relevant in my case.

    I have often, in the past, posted analyses and thoughts about players that I own, especially regarding their prospects for the future. An example is Letang, whom I've written about extensively, especially during the years when he was not yet producing up to the expectations. More recently, Hiller, in that thread regarding where he stands in terms of top 10, 15, 20, etc.

    There is a reason why I am posting regarding these guys, and it's not because I own them, but rather because of the fact that I FOLLOW THEM MORE CLOSELY as a result of owning them. For this reason, I often will have much more valuable information to share with all of you regarding these players versus other players I don't follow as much. Sometimes, I think this may come off to some as homerism ((i.e., there goes so-and-so again blabbing about how great that player he owns is), but it really isn't, it is more a tendency to provide information regarding players of whom you have the most knowledge, and if anything that is quite the opposite of homerism. Again, the golden rule is to avoid OVERVALUING when you do this.

    In the end, the only way to answer fantasy-related questions about a player is to look at the cold, hard facts, and ignore all biases. Look at the statistics, the player's past performances, his NHL situation and the way a player is being used by the team, the strength and character of his NHL team (weak; offense-inclined; defense-first; etc.), those are the details that lead to solid, helpful analyses, which is the bread and butter of this great forum.
    Brilliant point Ross...not going to lie I find myself doing that on occassion as well. Its easy to favour certain players when you watch a lot of them over and over again. I don't think I can ever give a non-homer response regarding Kesler ever again. Good thing he's so sick lol.

    To build on this point of bias, I'd just like to add how important it is to make sure that advice given is based on the original poster scoring categories and league dynamic and not your own. That is something that kind of bothers me a bit when I see it. Classic example is the multi-cat over the points only.

    Hypothetical example: "Yeah definitely draft Hartnell over Tanguay. Tanguay is absolutely terrible for peripherals, he doesn't shoot at all. Hartnell is a multi-cat BEAST and will give you loads of PIM, Hits and his more goal heavy!"

    (Example was simply to illustrate a point).

    Advice like that is bad news if the OP specifically says "Points Only" in his/her sig or in their original post.

    I find this comes into play a lot when it comes to leagues that attribute point values to certain categories (i.e. 0.25 points for SOG, .1 points for PIM). I've seen some odd leagues in the short time that I've been here..one of which counted hits = 1 just as a G = 1 or A = 1. In a league like that Cal Clutterbuck instantly becomes a 300+ point player, etc.

    Nobody is perfect, and its not like you're shitlisted if you do that..I've probably done it a couple times... but its just something to think about. It can really mess someone up if you give someone who is new to FH advice based on your categories and not their own. I've seen it happen before where someone pulls a trigger on a trade because a couple people jump the gun and go based on name value when the trade itself is completely detrimental to the team.

    Just something to keep in mind...
    Last edited by bondon; August 22, 2011 at 11:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross10019 View Post
    One other topic that might be worth addressing is "homerism".

    Now it goes without saying that all of us have a soft spot for either our home/favorite NHL team and its players, as well as for the NHL players on our fantasy squads, but it's critical that, when providing analysis (trades, keeper decisions, roster moves, performance forecasts, etc.) that you completely set aside that homerist tendency as much as possible. I am not saying that you shouldn't post about players you like, or players from your favorite NHL team - often, you will have very valuable information to share regarding these players - BUT, and here is the KEY issue, you should try to avoid at all costs OVERVALUING these players based on your favoritism, that to me is the crux of the matter.

    but if we do that what will Ev post about?

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    Very good thread. Thank you for the tips.
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    Default Devil's Advocate

    I have always felt that the best person in a discussion is the one who can portray themselves as a justifiable devil's advocate. Now I understand that it is quite difficult to do without coming off as pompous or outlandish.

    However, I have seen it occur a quite a few times on the site and it always stands to make the discussion that much stronger. I understand it is a finely tuned skill, so if you read that someone being a devil's advocate is a little off the mark, then please try to understand it betters the discussion by leaps and bounds. Even if some people tend to get a little heated over it, we should all appreciate someone who voices their opinion or plays the devil's advocate, even if it comes across in bad taste

    My absolute favourite part of the ramblings is when Dobber and Angus do this from time to time. Sometimes they admit to it, sometimes they do not, and sometimes I may just be mistaken to the fact the they aren't actually playing devil's advocate. Whatever the case, the fervor that ensues and the discussion points that are laid out are often brilliant. Not to mention that it acts as a coy marketing tool and a way to further their reach to the target audiences. With how popular the network is and how it grows every day, I'd say they are doing a bang-on job in providing excellent discussion material.

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    Great tips. I wonder if this shouldn't be stickeyed? (Oh man not even able to spell)
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    Excellent Thread.

    Three items I try to focus on:
    1. Respect & Avoiding Altercations
    It is definitely good to realize that everybody is entitled to their opinion. Sometimes two people can be so adamant on their views that a debate escalates. At some point, somebody has to step back and say "I may be wrong, it's just my opinion". I treat each thread like it is a hockey game. Once you've played the game (made a few posts), you need to prepare to post your final thought, leave the thread, and not worry about future altercations with the same person on the same subject.

    2. Post your thoughts... even when everything has been said.
    Most threads are asking for opinion & help. There may be three posts saying "Go Player A" and one post saying "Go Player B". If you think it should be "Player A", post your reply or "QUOTE" somebody's comment and simply type "I agree with this". Quoting and agreeing with somebody's comment is a nice compliment. It also reinforces the strength of making a decision for the person seeking advice.

    3. Using "search".
    There is a tab at the top of the forum where you can do an "Advanced Search". I realize people are often short on time and have a specific case they want a nice clean thread where they can collect thoughts. That said, it might be a topic that has been addressed before and some of the wisest comments may have been said... and the poster may not show up to say them again. Before starting a "What are your thoughts on Player X?" thread, go and see if there is anything within the last 3 months. The boards can get cluttered quickly during draft time - the site is very popular - and it is helpful to keep everything as tidy as we can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomm Bastic View Post
    ...every answer is not some Bayesian data analysis, but I do try and avoid the "Oh Player-X, w/out a doubt!" type answers.
    I am a little embarrassed at the fact that I got really excited to see "Bayesian" in the fora.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bomm Bastic View Post
    "Original Cheeze-Its are superior to lame-ass Cheese-Nips."
    This is clearly the result of some sort of drug-addled daze; Cheese-Nips without a doubt!
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    I think the number one thing is humbleness and lord knows I could use some work here and maybe we all could but as a community that's the number one thing. Most (if not all) of us here are fantasy league champions and that's in part or in total thanks to this site. Keeping in mind just how many smart hockey minds we have collected here keeps you humble and thus open to continuing to learn, which is why we all come here in the first place. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hey_Robbie View Post
    I am a little embarrassed at the fact that I got really excited to see "Bayesian" in the fora.



    This is clearly the result of some sort of drug-addled daze; Cheese-Nips without a doubt!

    I am a little embarrassed at the fact that I got really excited to see "drug-addled daze" in the fora.

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    Default Posting pictures and stuff

    I know there was a thread that mentioned it recently, but I can't find it now; how do you post pictures in the body of the post (vs making an attachment)? Also tips on the code for making active links [ URL ] websiteAddress [ /URL ] (with no spaces), and things like underlining and bolding text would be helpful to know too.
    Last edited by Czechline; August 26, 2011 at 10:56 AM.
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    underlining is by [ u ] text [ / u ] with no spaces, bold is [ b ] text [ /b ] no spaces, and [ img ] url [ /img ] for images no spaces and text comes naturally as long as it's in a url format like www.yahoo.com
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