Ryan Miller or Kari Lehtonen?

[Bubba55]

Well it didn't take long, an owner in my league has both Miller and Lehtonen on the trading block. I could use either one, I'm on pretty thin ice with my goaltending. The question is, which one to target and why? Team and scoring cats in sig. Right now, I'm leaning toward Lehtonen, but I'd like to hear what the forum has to say.

[mister_mcgoo]

Ryan Miller is twice the goalie that Lehtonen is so he would be my choice

[Carcillo]

Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo

Ryan Miller is twice the goalie that Lehtonen is so he would be my choice

I'll disagree with this. Lehtonen is an elite goalie. Top-10 goalie in NHL. I'll still give the edge to Miller as of right now but Lehtonen is really close to him.

As for whom to target? I like both goalies and would target the one with cheaper price tag attached to him. Pretty sure that's Lehtonen. He's still pretty underrated goalie.

[Kwazzie]

Originally Posted by Carcillo

I'll disagree with this. Lehtonen is an elite goalie. Top-10 goalie in NHL. I'll still give the edge to Miller as of right now but Lehtonen is really close to him.

As for whom to target? I like both goalies and would target the one with cheaper price tag attached to him. Pretty sure that's Lehtonen. He's still pretty underrated goalie.

Agreed Miller has name value but lehtonen can flat out play and looks to be healthy consistently now as opposed to early in his career. Miller having a concussion and playing like garbage for half a season actually makes him the more recent injury risk if you want to look at that part. But im not worried about either's health just tossed it in there. I got lehtonen in a draft even after guys like backstrom, bryz, varly, etc all off the boards and i couldnt believe it. most of the guys are from dobber (so i assume above avg educated in fantasy hockey goings) so it goes to show you how underrated he is. Also keep in mind his defence is nowhere near as proven or high priced as Miller yet statistically he is as good or better. Dallas is building something special and he is their man, get in now before he proves those doubters wrong this season.

[mister_mcgoo]

Originally Posted by Carcillo

I'll disagree with this. Lehtonen is an elite goalie. Top-10 goalie in NHL. I'll still give the edge to Miller as of right now but Lehtonen is really close to him.

As for whom to target? I like both goalies and would target the one with cheaper price tag attached to him. Pretty sure that's Lehtonen. He's still pretty underrated goalie.

I love how one good season equates to 'elite'...

I have no idea how you're getting top 10 either, that's a big stretch too.

Here's 10 who are easily ahead of him in terms of talent in the NHL right now

Lundqvist
Quick
Price
Luongo
Rinne
Kiprusoff
Ward
Miller
Brodeur
Rask

then you've got guys like Schneider, Elliot, Bernier who will be knocking on the door soon to break into that club.
Lehtonen isn't elite, he's middle of the pack at best...I lump him in with Halak, Anderson, Neimi, Bryz, Smith etc. And those guys are good goalies and if they can show consistency in their game they might threaten that top 10 (like look at the season that Smith and Halak had? And Bryz was great before PHI, he could bounce back big). Lehtonen needs to show us he can stay healthy and play the way he did last season all the time...one good fantasy season does not an elite goalie make

[Carcillo]

Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo

I love how one good season equates to 'elite'...

Well I guess Giroux isn't elite either. He's only got one season of elite level play so far. Or Erik Karlsson for that matter. Personally I'm very comfortable labelling those two as elite - just like I'm with Lehtonen.

Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo

I have no idea how you're getting top 10 either, that's a big stretch too.

Here's 10 who are easily ahead of him in terms of talent in the NHL right now

Lundqvist
Quick
Price
Luongo
Rinne
Kiprusoff
Ward
Miller
Brodeur
Rask

Lehtonen has always been an elite talent. There's very few goalies who have more natural talent than Lehtonen has. And in the past two seasons with the Stars Lehtonen's game has risen up the level of his talent. I'm comfortable putting him as a top-10 goalie in NHL (I'm not talking about fantasy value, I'm talking about actual level of game; for example I love Fleury and could take him in fantasy over Lehtonen because of surroundings but I think Lehtonen is the better goalie of the two). Lundqvist, Rinne, Quick, Price, Miller and after that there's a close group of guys in which I'd place Lehtonen (along with Kipper, Ward, Rask - after those there are Halak, Smith, Schneider, Fleury and Brodeur).

Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo

then you've got guys like Schneider, Elliot, Bernier who will be knocking on the door soon to break into that club.
Lehtonen isn't elite, he's middle of the pack at best...I lump him in with Halak, Anderson, Neimi, Bryz, Smith etc. And those guys are good goalies and if they can show consistency in their game they might threaten that top 10 (like look at the season that Smith and Halak had? And Bryz was great before PHI, he could bounce back big). Lehtonen needs to show us he can stay healthy and play the way he did last season all the time...one good fantasy season does not an elite goalie make

Guys like Elliott and Bernier are nowhere near Lehtonen's talent level. Never have been, never will be. That's not to say they aren't good goalies but neither possesses the talent that Lehtonen has.

You can certainly consider Lehtonen a middle of the pack goalie but I respectfully disagree with your opinion on him. I don't consider Lehtonen an elite goalie because of one good fantasy season; I consider him elite goalie because of his talent and the level of game his shown the past two seasons with the Dallas Stars. The goalies you mentioned are very good and some of them have had amazing seasons but in terms of talent I don't see anyone being as talented as Lehtonen is. I'd definitely take Lehtonen over all of them if I were building an actual NHL-team. In fantasy hockey you can certainly take Halak who plays in Hithcock's system over Lehtonen and I wouldn't blame you one bit.

[Carcillo]

By the way, Angus also considers Lehtonen as an elite goalie:

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2012/10...o-elite-status

[Bubba55]

Good discussion Gentlemen. All I can say is I hope the other owner considers Lehtonen to be a middle of the pack kinda guy. Carcillo has hit on an important fact, it's all about the price, and I'm thinking I'm paying big for Miller but might be able to arrange a pretty good deal for Lehtonen. Anyone else?

[mister_mcgoo]

Originally Posted by Carcillo

Well I guess Giroux isn't elite either. He's only got one season of elite level play so far. Or Erik Karlsson for that matter.

That's foolish and you know it, you're comparing apples to oranges. If Giroux was 30 with 6 lackluster seasons under his belt and suddenly reeled off 90+ pts I would agree with you but that's hardly the case.

Originally Posted by Carcillo

Lehtonen has always been an elite talent. There's very few goalies who have more natural talent than Lehtonen has. And in the past two seasons with the Stars Lehtonen's game has risen up the level of his talent. I'm comfortable putting him as a top-10 goalie in NHL (I'm not talking about fantasy value, I'm talking about actual level of game; for example I love Fleury and could take him in fantasy over Lehtonen because of surroundings but I think Lehtonen is the better goalie of the two). Lundqvist, Rinne, Quick, Price, Miller and after that there's a close group of guys in which I'd place Lehtonen (along with Kipper, Ward, Rask - after those there are Halak, Smith, Schneider, Fleury and Brodeur).

I'm not talking fantasy value either, but for me Lehtonen is as mediocre a talent as Fleury. But if we're talking pure talent then I cannot fathom how you have him valued above a guy like Brodeur, that's just ridiculous IMO. Come back and talk to me if Lehtonen even wins a cup...nevermind 3 of them!...or 2 gold medals, or 4 vezinas, or wins 650 games, 120 shutouts...the list goes on and on and on. Granted he's at the end of his career and is not as dominant as he was in his prime, but if we're comparing pure talent then Kari isn't fit to lace up Marty's skates!

[The Wrong Marine]

Agree with Carcillo's line of thinking on the price..Depending on the price differential I'd take Miller. But if the price is too steep, Lehtonen is a great option as well. I personally think Buffalo will have a better year this year and believe Miller to be the better goalie. But if he is asking for the moon and cripple your team for Miller, then you will just have to "settle" on Lehtonen.