What if the players created their own league?

[OceanMon]

What if the players created their own league? Perhaps owned as a sort of co-op? What sort of logistics would they have to sort out?

This, of course, is purely hypothetical.

Would they then hire people to serve as GMs to "draft" the players/owners to form teams? To do the administration of league paperwork, renting arenas, etc. How much would it cost to start up??

How would salaries be determined? I suppose as a proportion of what they invested to create the new Players Hockey League.

What if a player sucked and deserved to be booted from the league, but had a investment as part owner? Would shitty player-owners then stick around longer than they should be?

It is as though a hooker voluntarily pays a man to be her pimp though the hooker is the real boss in this case.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there and see if anybody would like to discuss.

[blayze]

Could never happen due to conflicts of interest between principal and agent.

[Carcillo]

They would never have the money needed to create their own league.

[Millhouse]

Even if they had the money and could get over conflicts, I suspect you would not see front loaded 15 year contracts and all the other BS that goes with it. That is why I think players like Recchi and Jagr, who both have ownership in teams, seem to side with owners. Not just because they are owners now, but rather they have seen both sides of the fence and now realise what is really involved and the expenses that go with owning.

[kevinsrangers]

then cba negotiations could be settled on the ice. would even make for more enterainment.

[Carcillo]

Originally Posted by kevinsrangers

then cba negotiations could be settled on the ice. would even make for more enterainment.

There would be no money to fight over for so CBA negotiations would be easy.

[Pengwin7]

Originally Posted by OceanMon

What sort of logistics would they have to sort out?

A LOT.

In my opinion, the hardest thing would be to coordinate a hosting-venue & establish fan allegiance. The players would have to find an arena to play their games. That means they'd have to make contracts with the arena owner - which in some cases is owned by the NHL owner.

For example, the Leafs are owned by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment.
The ACC is owned by... oh, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment.

So now... if you need a new league - a team formed in Toronto won't be playing at the ACC and they can't be called the Toronto Maple Leafs.

What's the 2nd biggest available venue in Toronto for hockey?
If the ACC holds 20,000... and the next biggest arena (say) holds 15,000... well now the players are looking at 75% overall revenue (since most comes from gate receipts).

And Toronto would probably be the least problem... because there are secondary venues in Toronto.
In Florida, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Dallas, St.Louis, Columbus, PHX, LA, Anaheim... how many of these cities don't have a secondary venue for hockey?

As soon a future league has to shut down half their US cities, well now nobody wants the global television contract. So that revenue is gone.


I would guess... a new league would be probably half the size, 16 teams, which means half the players have jobs.
That's the key sticking point, IMO.

And as soon as anything gets to the points where only half the players have NHL jobs... well, things change.

Just look at the NHLPA negotiating committee right now (per wiki):

Craig Adams - Pittsburgh Penguins
Adrian Aucoin - Columbus Blue Jackets
Alex Auld - Ottawa Senators*
David Backes - St. Louis Blues
Marty Biron - New York Rangers
Brad Boyes - New York Islanders
Chris Campoli - Montreal Canadiens*
B. J. Crombeen - Tampa Bay Lightning
Mathieu Darche - Montreal Canadiens*
Rick DiPietro - New York Islanders
Shane Doan - Phoenix Coyotes
Brandon Dubinsky - Columbus Blue Jackets
Ruslan Fedotenko - Philadelphia Flyers
Alex Goligoski - Dallas Stars
Ron Hainsey - Winnipeg Jets
Scott Hartnell - Philadelphia Flyers
Jamie Langenbrunner - St. Louis Blues
Manny Malhotra - Vancouver Canucks
Steve Montador - Chicago Blackhawks
Dominic Moore - San Jose Sharks*
Brendan Morrison - Chicago Blackhawks*
Douglas Murray - San Jose Sharks
George Parros - Florida Panthers
Chris Phillips - Ottawa Senators
Cory Schneider - Vancouver Canucks
John Tavares - New York Islanders
Shea Weber - Nashville Predators
Kevin Westgarth - Los Angeles Kings
Dan Winnik - Anaheim Ducks
James Wisniewski - Columbus Blue Jackets
Henrik Zetterberg - Detroit Red Wings

How many of these guys are in the top half of players in the NHL?
The rest of these guys... probably out of work.
Instead of making $1million/year or $800k per year... now they are playing in the AHL for $50,000/year.


I know it's hypothetical... but this is why business can't downsize.
It must grow or die... and a hockey-league can't reform in North America unless it is smaller than the current NHL.


(Fun discussion though.)

[ericdaoust]

1) The NHL brand draws revenue that helps pay player salaries. Forming their own league takes the brand away.
2) Who would pay for all of the facilities and luxuries that make the NHL what it is today?
3) Who would be in charge of the league? Eventually there would have to be a governing body and you're right back to the situation you have today.

If they wanted their own league they would have started one on Sept 16.

[Maaaasquito]

Originally Posted by Pengwin7

A LOT.

I agree with what you have said, but I'm with Ocean and trying to think of a solution "outside of the box"... The problem is the owners have all of the power, they hold the books and the revenue... They're still earning money regardless if there is an NHL season or not. What other channels to the players actually have besides earning a well-paid living through the NHL? Go to KHL? Europe? The NHL is the only means for them to actually earn an annual 7 figure salary playing a game that they love.

If I were the owners, and if I am actually happy to cancel the season to get the deal that I want, I'd absolutely dominate the players and give them a take it or leave it offer. I'd blow them out of the water and offer them 40% HRR, and completely destroy them. How many would come crawling back after missing 2 year's worth of paychecks? That's how they broke them the last time, why would anything be different this time around? Is making 600k instead of $1 mill that bad in the grand scheme of things?

So all this bantering from the PA about the owners not conceding anything, and how it's all take, take, take from their end, well why shouldn't they, they're your boss, you don't like it look for another alternative (oh wait there isn't a better alternative)...

Now this is where I would side with Ocean, the logistics of it would be a nightmare, but why wouldn't the players want to form their own league, or the very least at least consider the notion of it. I mean we're the fans that are willing to pay $100 bucks a ticket to watch them play, so there is a market for them... So instead of giving up 50% of the revenue to some corporate big wig for them to market the game, and do the "behind the scenes" stuff, well why not do it themselves?

Yes they might not be able to play in a 20000 seat stadium, but if they found "alternative" stadiums that could still fill 15000, but claim 100% of the revenue wouldn't they in theory earn more money than if they filled a 20000 seat stadium but claiming just half?

The key of course would be that they would need to start small, maybe 6-8 teams in hockey hotbeds, and players probably wouldn't make a ton of money right away, but it would still be better than the alternatives playing for $50k overseas right?

Let's say average ticket price of $50, 15000 seat stadium, 8 teams playing each other 4 times each (112 games)... would generate roughly $84 mil through ticket sales, not including parking, concession, products, tv revenue... Then they might add in playoffs... Minus overhead, each player could possibly take in a mil each, which would still be much better than the alternative of 50-100k a year in Europe...

Over the next 4-5 years if they expanded to 16 teams in hockey hotbeds playing each other 6 times (720 games) and have average ticket prices back up to NHL levels of $100... they essentially have a $1.1 bil industry just through ticket sales. Chuck in other HRR stuff and it could be worth $5 mil to each player... Would that be a better alternative than what the NHL has to offer them now?

If anything this produces another "alternative" as a bargaining chip for the players... As of right now what are the owners afraid of KHL? Europe? Nope they all know that the NHL is where the money is for these players, so why would they want to concede anything to the players and offer them anything? Until the players have an viable alternative they don't have a leg to stand on.

It would take a lot of work for the players to start their own league, but there is a market out there, but the payoff could be huge down the track. If it takes off.

I mean would it be any different than having their leashes tightened after every CBA where the commissioner's first port of call is a lockout? and as a result having their wages cut by 20% (plus a year of lost wages) every CBA?

[Spec7ral]

Crosby can do hiring, make sure security is tight you fried egg.

Kane can do all the ordering for food and booze, keep the COGS in line buddy.

Iginla, you'll count up all the money and cut the paycheques every couple weeks.

Keith, you'll be in charge of facilities and equipment repairs, don't overpay any grease monkeys.

Suter you're doing marketing, use lots of colors or whatever .

Brodeur you got community involvement and outreach grandpa.

etc.. etc...