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Thread: Players may be in dark over 50/50 split

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maaaasquito View Post
    I completely agree with you, the problem is all this politicking is going no where... Look at what the NHL has done, started at 43%, saying that's our best offer, then moving it to 47% and saying that's our best offer, then 50% and saying that's our best offer, then maybe tomorrow they go 51% and that's our best offer, they've constantly moved the bar at every offer... So if I were the players, I'd look at that and say well they've moved it this far, why wouldn't they move it some more, might as well wait... So might as well hold out for a "better" offer later.

    What I'm saying is all this posturing is sending mix messages, and continues to give the players a glimmer of hope for a better deal 2 weeks down the track. So why wouldn't they reject any deal the NHL proposes and wait for a better one 2 weeks later?

    All the NHL is doing is "threatening" the loss of a season, the players under Fehr don't actually believe it will happen (or they all would have flocked overseas already), they think the NHL has a self imposed deadline, and will hold out for the best possible deal, so we just sit and wait, while they posture and move the mark slowly to the middle.
    So in other words Bettman and the NHL basically f**ked the process by being hard-ass dicks at the start and throwing out unreasonable offers. The goal seemed to be to beat down the union while working out a new deal and the league seemed to feel they had the leverage to do it.
    They overplayed their hand and got called.

    Gary should get a time machine and go ask Pyrrhus if victory is the same thing as success.
    /S

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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    That's a bad comparison... the NHL's total revenue is a rounding error compared to those other pro sports. Also, players in those other leagues make astronomically more than NHL players in endorsements, merchandise and other ancillary revenue.
    So because NHL doesn't generate as much revenue as those other leagues, NHL players should get a bigger piece of a smaller pie? I don't quite see it that way.

    It's also irrelevant how much or how little they make money through endorsements etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carcillo View Post
    So because NHL doesn't generate as much revenue as those other leagues, NHL players should get a bigger piece of a smaller pie? I don't quite see it that way.

    It's also irrelevant how much or how little they make money through endorsements etc.
    You may not see it that way, but that's pretty much exactly how it works. It's just like investment banker's deal fees... if it's a smaller deal they get a larger % of the deal size as their fee, but once you're in the realm of billion dollar plus deals then that % shrinks fast. In the sports world, the NFL = billion dollar deals, and the NHL = rounding error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    You may not see it that way, but that's pretty much exactly how it works. It's just like investment banker's deal fees... if it's a smaller deal they get a larger % of the deal size as their fee, but once you're in the realm of billion dollar plus deals then that % shrinks fast. In the sports world, the NFL = billion dollar deals, and the NHL = rounding error.
    Well that's not how the NHL sees it either. Also if that's how it works and we look this from NHL point of view only (since you said the other leagues were bad comparisons), the players share should fall (since the last CBA the total revenue has grown by over a billion dollars; so players share should also fast fast?).
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    Not always the case but yes, lower revenues should indicate a need for lower share of the pie. Depends on the cost structure. Clearly, arena based costs (if anything they should slightly higher given the sport is played on ice) are similar to NBA. Therefore, when NBA gets 50%, NHL should probably get less. Thats why 50% for NHL players is likely a decent deal for them when compared to NBA.

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    Let's be real. The majority, or close to it, of players would vote for the current terms that are on the table put forth by the NHL. Most players have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Lets take guys like Konppka or Carkner for example. No chance these guys are buying what the PA is selling. Players will always get moneu no matter what their piece of the pie is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    Let's be real. The majority, or close to it, of players would vote for the current terms that are on the table put forth by the NHL. Most players have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Lets take guys like Konppka or Carkner for example. No chance these guys are buying what the PA is selling. Players will always get moneu no matter what their piece of the pie is.
    This seems speculative at best...
    /S

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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    You may not see it that way, but that's pretty much exactly how it works. It's just like investment banker's deal fees... if it's a smaller deal they get a larger % of the deal size as their fee, but once you're in the realm of billion dollar plus deals then that % shrinks fast. In the sports world, the NFL = billion dollar deals, and the NHL = rounding error.
    Is this how it works in the AHL?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec7ral View Post
    Is this how it works in the AHL?
    Not likely since AHL teams are not responsible for all salaries. Some players get paid by their NHL clubs *cough*Redden*cough*.

    Different business model entirely.
    /S

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loch View Post
    This seems speculative at best...
    Do you honestly think guys with short careers give a **** about how much revenue the PA is getting 8 years from now? I would bet a lot of money that we'd be playing hockey if they took a vote right now. Most of the players are naive and are only listening to their master Donald Fehr anyway.

    My sentiments are shared by Brian Kilrea who said almost the exact same thing at a game the other day (sat right in front of him).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    Do you honestly think guys with short careers give a **** about how much revenue the PA is getting 8 years from now? I would bet a lot of money that we'd be playing hockey if they took a vote right now. Most of the players are naive and are only listening to their master Donald Fehr anyway.

    My sentiments are shared by Brian Kilrea who said almost the exact same thing at a game the other day (sat right in front of him).
    I don't honestly think the players care about what the PA gets 8 yrs from now because unless they've been asleep the last 17 years they probably assume there will be another lock-out by then.

    Do I think that a lock-out probably could have been avoided if the current league offer had come out in August/September? Yeah, sure. It is actually a pretty balanced approach and is probably a few minor tweaks away from smiles and handshakes.

    The thing is it took 4 months to get to this point from the original offer of "here's 43%, go f*ck yourselves". Things have got a little unfriendly incase you hadn't noticed. You ever had an argument with someone when the point stopped being "I'm right." and started being "F*ck you!"? I'm guessing 'give up a paycheck to kick Bettman in the balls' isn't a tough sell to some people in the PA.
    /S

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loch View Post
    The thing is it took 4 months to get to this point from the original offer of "here's 43%, go f*ck yourselves".
    Is that a reference to NHL's or NHLPA's original offer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carcillo View Post
    Is that a reference to NHL's or NHLPA's original offer?
    The NHL's first offer from July 13th. The 'go eff yourselves' is a paraphrasing and condensing of some of the other terms of the deal.

    TSN has a handy lock-out timeline which is as much fun as the free agent frenzy tracker! (in that it doesn't update often, it is never what you'd hoped to see, and it just keeps screwing your fantasy prospects).
    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=9678
    Last edited by Loch; November 19, 2012 at 4:05 PM.
    /S

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loch View Post
    The NHL's first offer from July 13th. The 'go eff yourselves' is a paraphrasing and condensing of some of the other terms of the deal.

    TSN has a handy lock-out timeline which is as much fun as the free agent frenzy tracker! http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=9678
    Alright, I thought the 'go eff yourselves' was because of the %-split (which in NHL's first proposal was the same as in the previous CBA (under which the PA said they'd happily to continue play); just other way round - so if 43% is insulting, the owners were insulted during the duration of last CBA ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carcillo View Post
    Alright, I thought the 'go eff yourselves' was because of the %-split (which in NHL's first proposal was the same as in the previous CBA (under which the PA said they'd happily to continue play); just other way round - so if 43% is insulting, the owners were insulted during the duration of last CBA ).
    Exactly!! It was VERY similar to the first offers tabled by the NFL and NBA....go figure!?! Anyone with any business acumen knows you NEVER make your first offer your best offer, otherwise you have no where to move...and look unwilling to compromise.

    There is a reason two other major leagues started this way, and they both ended with a season. So there is still hope...as Elliot Friedman pointed out, this is eerily similar to the NBA negotiations (which shares similar revenues). Hopefully a 66 game season starting December 16th!! *crosses fingers*

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