Alex Ovechkin

[Darren_Kennedy]

Can't remember the exact numbers, but the on ice shooting percentage of his line mates at 5v5 has been historically bad. Likely hurting plus minus

[bigbabybuda]

the OP was pointing out the absurdity of how badly he is playing from my interpretation of the post

i didn't read that as a suggestion that Ovechkin was as bad of a player as Yak, but rather as complete and utter shock that Ovechkin's +/- could actually be as terrible as it is

as for the individual awards they kinda prove the point of those who are suggesting that the guy doesn't exactly put his team first in what he does

The 1 award I mentioned is voted on by his peers as the best player in the League and the MVP award is suppose to go to the Most valuable player in the league in respects to there team. Washington would have came no where near the playoffs last year without Ovie's super human contributions last year imo. So I don't think that is an indictment or proves anything you guys are saying, sorry my opinion but....

I have made my points and feel they are more than valid so I will respond to Shiva's comment and leave it at that. As I can tell I'm in the minority.


cheers!

[bigbabybuda]

Yes, comparing Ovi to Yak is pretty silly. We all know who the vastly superior player is there. And you are right, no one can prove that he won't win, but the overwhelming majority of the evidence in front of us shows that it is extremely unlikely that he does.

and this is were you and I disagree. I think the evidence at this point is not conclusive. I feel that if surrounded by the right pieces he can win! He needs a strong defensive center as he is more than capable of creating his own offense and some dman who can actually play in there own end. Outside of Carlson Washington has none. Orlov maybe time will tell. Anyway I'm going to say goodbye to this thread! The original post was not aimed at you just at the fact I'm a little sick of seeing this and that Russian hockey player sucks because there one stat they can pick out in one particular year is bad but have yet to see one for very many NA players. Spezza is getting some heat now I suppose

[lucifer316]

and this is were you and I disagree. I think the evidence at this point is not conclusive. I feel that if surrounded by the right pieces he can win! He needs a strong defensive center as he is more than capable of creating his own offense and some dman who can actually play in there own end. Outside of Carlson Washington has none. Orlov maybe time will tell. Anyway I'm going to say goodbye to this thread! The original post was not aimed at you just at the fact I'm a little sick of seeing this and that Russian hockey player sucks because there one stat they can pick out in one particular year is bad but have yet to see one for very many NA players. Spezza is getting some heat now I suppose

that bolded portion is something that literally can be said about every single player in the league

every single player in the league can win if surrounded by the right pieces

[Shiva Blaster]

that bolded portion is something that literally can be said about every single player in the league

every single player in the league can win if surrounded by the right pieces

This. If Ovi was the 13th forward on Team Canada, he could have won gold.

[bigbabybuda]

that bolded portion is something that literally can be said about every single player in the league

every single player in the league can win if surrounded by the right pieces

It was a precursor to me saying he needed a defensive center and and a better surrounding. and it was actually quoted by someone I think my points are being proven!

[27Blue]

Back to the original topic:

Ovie sucks at defense. period.

[Shiva Blaster]

Back to the original topic:

Ovie sucks at defense. period.

But don't you have to actually try to do something before you can suck at it?

[Big Ev]

My opinion of Ovie has been posted enough, but IMO he would be better off with a change of scenery. Everyone thinks of Washington as a loser franchise so it doesn't help

[letangerang58]

No surprises. Alex is now a PP specialist who hurts his team at even-strength. Too bad Hunter is the only coach to have used him appropriately. Been saying for a few years that the Caps would be FAR better off trading him.

I agree. He might actually do better on another team too. I think he could still be decent if he wasn't the focal point of a team's offense.

I think another problem is that GMGM built one of the softest teams in the league around him.

[STONE.]

I agree. He might actually do better on another team too. I think he could still be decent if he wasn't the focal point of a team's offense.

Decent? Not the focal point of a team's offense?
He's leading the league in goals and is fourth in points! He'll be the focal point of a team's offense wherever he plays!
Another team, with some defensive depth and goaltending, could definitely help his +/- if that's what you mean by "better."

[letangerang58]

Decent? Not the focal point of a team's offense?
He's leading the league in goals and is fourth in points! He'll be the focal point of a team's offense wherever he plays!
Another team, with some defensive depth and goaltending, could definitely help his +/- if that's what you mean by "better."

You're right I said that wrong. He shouldn't be the focal point of the team as a whole. He needs to be used as a scoring specialist and can't be thrown out there to play in all situations. He's just too 1 dimensional to do that. If you play him 20+ minutes/night though then he's hurting your team.

[Mr. Guru]

what seriously, you started an argument about whether Ovechkin was a winner or not and have posted numbers and various other things none of which have proven him to be a winner

Im pretty sure he won the WJ's...........the finals against Canada...........scoring 6 goals in 6 games.............before his draft year.

You guys who are saying he is not a winner are idiots. We get it. He is not a leader. He can't win by himself. He is not super human. If Washington had a 2nd line center like Backes.....This team would be 10000x better.

You can't judge an athlete on his championships. Such an idiotic thread.

[STONE.]

Im pretty sure he won the WJ's...........the finals against Canada...........scoring 6 goals in 6 games.............before his draft year.

You guys who are saying he is not a winner are idiots. We get it. He is not a leader. He can't win by himself. He is not super human. If Washington had a 2nd line center like Backes.....This team would be 10000x better.

You can't judge an athlete on his championships. Such an idiotic thread.

Agreed 100%.
If it's all about leading a team to the Cup, then Nash, Weber, Iginla, Doan, Stamkos, Thornton, Marleau, etc are all failures that shouldn't be (or have been) the centerpieces of teams either. Heck, eliminate Crosby (didn't do it without Malkin) and Datsyuk (who couldn't get it done without Zetterberg and Lidstrom) from the list of winners too.

Ovechkin isn't hurting his team. 44 goals -- eight of which are game winners -- isn't a detriment.
Does he need help? Yes. After Backstrom and Johansson, he's got a collection of 3rd and 4th liners on his forward lines. And his defense and goaltending aren't exactly studly.

[Big Ev]

Im pretty sure he won the WJ's...........the finals against Canada...........scoring 6 goals in 6 games.............before his draft year.

You guys who are saying he is not a winner are idiots. We get it. He is not a leader. He can't win by himself. He is not super human. If Washington had a 2nd line center like Backes.....This team would be 10000x better.

You can't judge an athlete on his championships. Such an idiotic thread.

Th sport is about winning. If you haven't won a thing in your whole career even in peewee lake spezza, then you're not very good.

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Agreed 100%.
If it's all about leading a team to the Cup, then Nash, Weber, Iginla, Doan, Stamkos, Thornton, Marleau, etc are all failures that shouldn't be (or have been) the centerpieces of teams either. Heck, eliminate Crosby (didn't do it without Malkin) and Datsyuk (who couldn't get it done without Zetterberg and Lidstrom) from the list of winners too.

Ovechkin isn't hurting his team. 44 goals -- eight of which are game winners -- isn't a detriment.
Does he need help? Yes. After Backstrom and Johansson, he's got a collection of 3rd and 4th liners on his forward lines. And his defense and goaltending aren't exactly studly.

Hes hurting the team defensively and fife on five. All his goals are from the same spot standing around.