NHLPA's next move: decertification?

[Axeman33]

Seems to be the word of the day on twitter for anyone talking lockout today.

Not sure what it really means? Check out Bob MacKenzie's latest blog:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410081

He spells it out fairly clearly and saves me a ton of typing. From what I am reading, its certainly something the players are taking a look at.

[Carcillo]

Just a negotiation tactic by the PA.

[Axeman33]

Just a negotiation tactic by the PA.

True, for now, but its still an option for them going forward. I hope this wasnt Fehr's plan B.

[ericdaoust]

Sure it's an option, but does it actually help the process or does it create another battle front that will just prolong the lockout?

[doulos]

After reading a few different articles on the process I can't see it being anything more than a really complicated negotiating ploy.

I just want the NHL to come back - but not at the expense of having a league that is a free for all like that soccer crap overseas.

If it's a strange legal step that expedites finding a resolution then they can go crazy.

If it "actually" means they will end up creating free agents galore and going to the highest bidder etc then I am done with the NHL completely. I have sat through two decades of garbage hockey as an Oiler fan and to think that those players could suddenly just be tossed into the open market and picked up by the New York Rangers and Toronto Maple Leafs at exorbitent salaries while I have to watch the early 90s all over again - it's not happening.

It would kill the fanbase in most cities.

Now, realistically I can't see the situation ever getting that far, so hey ... why not. Fire away ... do what needs to be done, and let's get the teams back on the ice.

[Carcillo]

Sure it's an option, but does it actually help the process or does it create another battle front that will just prolong the lockout?

Could go either way. In NBA it certainly helped:

1 year ago today we were taking timing of NBPA disclaimer & antitrust Armageddon destroying the season. Tentative deal was reached next day.

https://twitter.com/SportsLawGuy/sta...89876042387456

[ericdaoust]

Could go either way. In NBA it certainly helped:



https://twitter.com/SportsLawGuy/sta...89876042387456

You may be right. They are actually not that far apart and taking those steps could force some final movement. But if the PA does this they should do it with fast negotiation in mind to settle the lockout and not to just cause a mess.

[kevinsrangers]

After reading a few different articles on the process I can't see it being anything more than a really complicated negotiating ploy.

I just want the NHL to come back - but not at the expense of having a league that is a free for all like that soccer crap overseas.

If it's a strange legal step that expedites finding a resolution then they can go crazy.

If it "actually" means they will end up creating free agents galore and going to the highest bidder etc then I am done with the NHL completely. I have sat through two decades of garbage hockey as an Oiler fan and to think that those players could suddenly just be tossed into the open market and picked up by the New York Rangers and Toronto Maple Leafs at exorbitent salaries while I have to watch the early 90s all over again - it's not happening.

It would kill the fanbase in most cities.

Now, realistically I can't see the situation ever getting that far, so hey ... why not. Fire away ... do what needs to be done, and let's get the teams back on the ice.

as a rangers fan i dont want this either. we have our best team in years and we tried BUYING the cup in the late 90's earlie 2000's. it doesnt work.

[RyWill09]

This is most definitely a negotiation ploy, and a good one, but the players better be 100% on board. If it goes through it will END lots of player careers, and screw over the 3rd/4th liners. If it happens a couple of points other reporters have brought up:

1) NFL decertified, but the anti-trust cases were denied by a superior court 3 times (after a lower court approved), so there is a presidense set. (as per the hockey Guru Bob McKenzie).

2) If it is dragged out in court, look for no 2013-2014 season either.

3) Sure players have a free-for-all, but only the elite players. AND goodbye pension, benefits, perks (hotels/travel/etc), and bye-bye lots of jobs as teams would most definitely fold.

4) Good bye NHL, as it won't be watchable

I think they may go this route as just a threat, after all it worked in the NFL and NBA negotiations....but what did the players really "gain" in those deals...not much, they are at about 50-50, or worse. Players better know what they are signing up for...but I guess that they should have since they hired Fehr!!

[SlobTheGreat]

My feeling is they go this route out of pure hatred now. Sadly, at the stage this is at, I do not believe any deal can be reached as long as Fehr and Bettman are at the lead on their respective sides.

[blayze]

I like this move by the NHLPA... I like it a lot.

Obviously it's never going to practically happen as the league would implode, but setting this tone definitely will accelerate the process closer towards a resolution.

It is important that the players show a united front right now in supporting this and that there is no wavering.

[arctic_rogue]

I like this move by the NHLPA... I like it a lot.

Obviously it's never going to practically happen as the league would implode, but setting this tone definitely will accelerate the process closer towards a resolution.

It is important that the players show a united front right now in supporting this and that there is no wavering.

Absolutely true about the unification. However, it's not needed for the threat of decertification. It's gotta be making Bettman and his crew a little anxious.

[notoriousjim]

the thing about every one of these negotiations is that we all know there is are area that both sides will be happy with. as time and investment into the negotiations goes on, both sides feel they have already sacrificed and as a result deserve more, so the overlap in acceptable deals gets smaller and smaller.

The threat of decertifications is really a classic "this is my ball, and i am taking it and going home", but a lock out is the exact same move on the other side. Once both sides have laid their cards out, and have shown that they will not fold, the hope is that both sides are willing to go back and find that deal that makes them all feel like they got something.

This entire process is marred by a bad deal the last time around: the NHL wanted a cap very badly, and sacrificed a lot in the raw numbers to get it. The players were sitting on a 57% share of revinue- most other leagues are much closer to a 50/50 split, and most of the other leagues have a much higher revinue (remember that the fixed costs are all fairly similar, and those things come out of the owners half). In the NHL with a smaller pie, and the teams getting a smaller part of a small pie, they simply could not make money. There are a few teams that did very will in this system, but most did not.

We get to these negotiations, and we now have a bigger pie, so it should not matter as much to cover expenses since they are still relativly fixed figures and the NHL overall still netted a profit off of the old deal. It did become apparent that some teams could not survive in this set up since thier fixed cost are above teh 43% they were receiving, so there was no way from them to turn a profit. Both sides came to the table to discuss solutions. The players wanted the rich teams to share their money with the poor teams. The league wants the players to just take a smaller portion. Both are solutions to the same problem. one has a few rich teams paying the bill, the other has the players paying the bill.

Decertification actully makes the leauges stance even sillier since there are no longer players at all, so there is no one to foot the bill. The reality is that the players are getting too big of a slice of the pie (50/50 is what every other league gets, since you are above it, give in and go to 50), but the league needs to expand profit sharing with other teams. in another 5-10 years they will be in this situation again, and if there is already revinue sharing owners will not complain about doing it more every time.

Both sides just have come to the point that neither wants to give up too much since they have already sacrificed. Personally i like the idea of a mediator or arbitrator in these cases since there clearly is an intent to be bound on both sides. they need each other to survive, it is just a matter of figureing out a way make both sides content (we are beyond a win win situation, we are down to nobody cries option)

[RyWill09]

Absolutely true about the unification. However, it's not needed for the threat of decertification. It's gotta be making Bettman and his crew a little anxious.

Actually being united is needed for decertification as they HAVE to vote by a majority to even start the process. Until the process is started the NHL will treat it like an empty threat. But as I said, if they start it, they better be prepare to live with the consequences afterward...most of these players need an education from someone other than the Fehr's.

[cn_habs]

Actually being united is needed for decertification as they HAVE to vote by a majority to even start the process. Until the process is started the NHL will treat it like an empty threat. But as I said, if they start it, they better be prepare to live with the consequences afterward...most of these players need an education from someone other than the Fehr's.

I bet my house that most players don't even understand the ramifications of "delinkage" let alone "decertification". I find it very convenient that Fehr has never used the former term in his leaked memos AKA PR stunts.

If the NHL calls the PA on this bluff, most likely half of the current NHLPA members (those 3rd/4th liners)will never play again in 2 years time. Guess what, I wouldn't give a rat ass about them because they are simply too dumb to understand the number Fehr did on them.