Drawing back from your own offer after I accepted it?

[LeTrefle]

Last night, a gm offered me a trade.
Tonight, I accepted.
Just to see him drawing back from HIS trade proposal after I said yes!
I'm not happy about that!
---
Whole strory:
This evening, I countered his offer.
He declined and recountered.
Seeing that this was taking a different way that what I want, I accepted his original offer from last night.
After I accepted, he said that he doesn't want to do this deal anymore.
Do the original offer is automatically off the table when I make a counter?

[Zorro]

I would love to side with you here but I think once you countered the deal, the first deal is rejected..

1) He offered you a deal..
2) You didn't like the deal for some reason, so you countered..
3) He didn't like your deal, so he offered you something new..

Now I think the only deal that is out there for the taking is #3

[metaldude26]

Last night, a gm offered me a trade.
Tonight, I accepted.
Just to see him drawing back from HIS trade proposal after I said yes!
I'm not happy about that!
---
Whole strory:
This evening, I countered his offer.
He declined and recountered.
Seeing that this was taking a different way that what I want, I accepted his original offer from last night.
After I accepted, he said that he doesn't want to do this deal anymore.
Do the original offer is automatically off the table when I make a counter?

If all we are talking about here is verbal offers then I wouldn't consider anything binding. There's a reason leagues have official trade mechanisms. You can get upset about a guy reneging on a verbal offer and choose not to deal with him in the future but it's not necessarily dirty pool.

In this particular instance you rejected his deal so you only have yourself to blame for him changing his mind.

[VincentVega]

I'm with Zorro here. Once you rejected his offer, the offer is off the table. You can't say "hey, I tried something else but it didn't work, let's go back to the original offer you sent me".

In my league, some GMs don't reject my offers but send me other offers with the same players involved. That way, they don't completely close the door to the original offer while they are still trying to milk as much as possible. Needless to say, it's pretty obvious to see what they're trying to do.

[ridinryan44]

I think, even though it may suck, a trade is never a trade until it is done. I have come to terms with that over my time in fantasy hockey.

That being said, there are situations that seem fair, and some that seem unfair (in terms of ethics).

In your situation, if you received an offer and you accepted it within a days time, I definitely think that offer should stand and be fulfilled. When you come in with a counter, I personally feel that the initial offer is now "not available". If you were to clear it with the GM and state "I have a counter but would like to know if the initial offer still stands if you don't like my counter" and you get a positive response, then you have covered your ass. Otherwise, I think your S.O.L.


When I make offers and someone wants to take some time to think about it, I always cover my ass and say "If you want to take some time, is it cool if I retain the right to say no if I have changed my mind?" I've never had a GM say no (not that they really could or I could simply pull the offer) but I've learned that covering all my angles makes sure that there are no issues.

A trade is never done until players are actually moved. Ethics always play a role and are an important part of it, ocf course, but you will always come upon a GM who may not share your view of what is fair.

[LeTrefle]

I'm OK with that.
Just want to have your opinon on this situation.
We don't have some sort of mecanism for trade offer.
We all know each other and we go by emails.
I will cool down for sure.
Thanks guys.

[metaldude26]

I'm OK with that.
Just want to have your opinon on this situation.
We don't have some sort of mecanism for trade offer.
We all know each other and we go by emails.
I will cool down for sure.
Thanks guys.

With no trade mechanism you basically need the following to occur:

-Offer made.
-Receiver responds with acceptance.
-Sender confirms acceptance.
-Deal sent with confirmation from both parties to commissioner.
-Commissioner approves deal.

With verbal trade discussions I don't think you can take any offer as a simple "click YES and it's done" because what if someone is talking deal with several people. Several offers could potentially be accepted at once and then you have everyone fighting to say they accepted first. That's a bad situation. In leagues with a firm trade mechanism you can "click Yes" and all other offers are neutralized but because it's all verbal you have to rely on the sender to confirm back.

[newfcollins]

I've been in the exact same boat. Someone makes an offer, I counter. They say no without countering, so I want to take the original offer, but they say no. It's happened to me twice, by the same guy (as a side note, this guy is very passive when it comes to deals: He's always worried he's going to get screwed on a deal that he won't make a big move).

It frustrates me when it happens, but after a day or two I realize it was probably for the better.

[LawMan]

I would love to side with you here but I think once you countered the deal, the first deal is rejected..

1) He offered you a deal..
2) You didn't like the deal for some reason, so you countered..
3) He didn't like your deal, so he offered you something new..

Now I think the only deal that is out there for the taking is #3

I have to agree with this I don't think you have a "legal" or ethical argument here. I'm going to go lawyer on your right now, (I realize this isn't a legal issue but the principles make sense):

In law if an offer is made and a counter-offer is then made the counter-offer automatically kills the original offer. The principle is that without this rule, the party receiving an offer who is willing to accept would get a free shot to improve the offer.

Consider the following example:
A Manager is offered a 1-for-1 player swap, he likes the deal as he rates the player he's receiving an 8 and the one he gives up a 7. He decides to get greedy and counter with a deal where a different player he receives is a 9 for the original player worth a 7. If the other manager agrees he improves by getting a 9 instead of an 8. Alternatively, if the other manager declines he THEN accepts the first deal. This simple example illustrates the principle, without the rule killing the original offer the party receiving can try and improve his offer for free.

Back on your issue. The other manager made an offer and you countered. Once you countered the original deal is killed the third deal was offered and that's the only deal open for acceptance.

[baumer]

I'll also echo everyone's thoughts. In our league (like I'm sure it is in everyone else's) we have a committee. When you make a trade, both parties have to send that trade to the committee outlining the trade. Once that email is sent by both parties then the deal is complete. Verbal agreements can be misconstrued and sometimes people just have a change of heart and mind. So in this case, sorry, but there was no binding deal.

[ross10019]

Two thoughts:

- Verbal offers in fantasy leagues (unlike the real world) may not be sufficient to be binding, but in terms of ethics if you make a verbal offer you have to go through with it if the counterparty accepts as is. If he doesn't, at minimum the rejected owner can let the other owners know as it should affect the reneging owner's trade reputation.

- In terms of contract, it's simple offer and acceptance. Would you have accepted his offer as is, you could have argued to a judge that he had to go through with it, and the judge would likely say you're right (in NY) if you had the evidence to prove the offer was made and you accepted it as is. Of course you're never going to a judge over a fantasy trade, so it would be mainly an ethical argument (see point 1 above). However, in this case, when you rejected and counter-offered, it undid the original offer, since you changed the terms - that offer no longer existed at that point.

[Gaborlick]

I'm with Zorro here. Once you rejected his offer, the offer is off the table. You can't say "hey, I tried something else but it didn't work, let's go back to the original offer you sent me".

In my league, some GMs don't reject my offers but send me other offers with the same players involved. That way, they don't completely close the door to the original offer while they are still trying to milk as much as possible. Needless to say, it's pretty obvious to see what they're trying to do.

I agree with Vega here, once a deal is rejected, it is off the table unless it was resubmitted as a new trade offer.

In my league we have very specific trading rules.

Specific email mechanics and there is no going back on an offer after it has been accepted. There is also a time limit on the trade proposal. You can't wait 5 days (possibility of a player involved getting injured) to accept a trade. I think we have it as quick as 4 hours.

I got in trouble myself before these rules were in place, partially instated because of me I agreed to a trade and later changed my mind during the 48 hour league evaluation period. There was nothing in the rules that said I couldn't renege.

[blayze]

Nothing's binding until both sides hit accept. Simple as that.

[sensfan19]

Its only a verbal offer? It means nothing unless the trade is sent via yahoo fantasy platform or if the below process takes place as mentioned by MD.

-Offer made.
-Receiver responds with acceptance.
-Sender confirms acceptance.
-Deal sent with confirmation from both parties to commissioner.
-Commissioner approves deal.

Nothing verbal is final!